8/07/2006

Ernesto Caivano


54 comments:

triple diesel said...

Drawing is irrelevant?

flesheater99 said...

probably but these are alright.

painterdog said...

This guy reminds me of the sixties poster art in some way and undergroound comics.

Corny said...

Really drawing is irrelevant? How so? I like drawings and seek them out in galleries and museums. Seems to me they have an aesthetic and commercial value that at times are of equal stature to painting. Is oil on paper irrelivant too? what about Walter De maria's Mile long desert drawing, David hammons basketball drawings or Janine Antoni's To Draw a Line and other conceptual drawing projects? Kara Walkers work is largely based on her drawing practice, so is mine.

I know you proly said that Triple Diesel to provoke a reaction so here I am, biting.

triple diesel said...

Thanks, corny. Actually, we were quoting someone from the weekend's comments about Maurizio Cattelan. We forgot to use quotations, however. (Our bad!)

PinkandlacePony said...

I love this artist work.
Where does he show now?
I saw his show at 31Grand several years ago.

triple diesel said...

Guild & Greyshkul

http://www.guildgreyshkul.com/

closeuup said...

Is that a good drawing? It looks flat and bland to me. This is so much better for a decorative stylee...

http://home.student.uva.nl/victoria.anastasyadis/Beardsley.jpg

painterdog said...

I have seen his work, its very decroative, detailed and it reminds me a lot of rapidograph drawing that was kind of popular in the 70's in high school art classes. He's better than that but the work does seem to move in that direction.

I'm on the fence with this.

closeuup said...

Drawings are so hard to see online. Nothing jpegs worse than a drawing. So maybe its better for real

cobaltsalt said...

Something about Ernesto's line quality and inking style reminds me of Aubrey Beardsley. It is really an uncanny similarity. If you look at the two side by side they are almost indistinguishable. One done in 2006 the other in the early 19th century.

painterdog said...

Yes that's true, his work is kind of like Beardsley's in style.

Beardley was much better though.

cobaltsalt said...

I agree. When Beardsley did it, he was up against odds...doing something avante guard, taboo. To do this nowadays is just retrograde. Giving the public something they already like, there is no risk involved.

zipthwung said...

Greg Irons has better line weight, and I like his coloring books better.
the BLACK PANTHER COLORING BOOK looks cool. Some pages are better than others.

class project anyone?

we could be situationists just like David Rees

and finally:

Erte

no and finally:

ERTE!

no, wait, how about:

NAGEL!

closeuup said...

Beardsley wasnt just better because he was cutting edge in his day.

AB could draw better--that is, he knew how to use line to create space. Look at the line weight in a Beardsley and also the pos/neg space. He was a master of both. This guy doesn't usilize either particularly. Maybe he doesnt want to. Some of the other stuff on the G&G website is a bit better. The big abstractions are kinda cool.

closeuup said...

Gotta show that Black Panther book to my daughter. She would love it. She wrote a paper this year called "John Brown , Activist". Got an A, too. She's a natural.

dharmabum said...

meth + rapidograph 00

painterdog said...

The other thing is I don't know what Ernesto Caivano uses to draw with, but Beardsley used nibs, and india ink.

Also his work had so much eroticism going on.

I like Tony Millionaire,R. Crumb, and Kim Dietch for ink drawing.

zipthwung said...

manage a team!

I was thinking about "trip books" - I had one in high school - but instead of drugs it was the English teacher's lecture. I could draw all class. RAD! Math class was taken up writing notes. No thinking aloud.

this is worse - academic style, no love. No line weight. Still, there's some proficiency in the cross hatching. Just serviceable.

I spent a lot of time trying to learn to draw with a pen.

The brush has more to it. Why not use one though? Is it that hard? I dont think raymond pettibon is all that good in comparison to the masters. I guess he's more admired for the "expressive" nature of his brushwork. Well how many years has it been? I say hes more interested in the narrative/conceptual part than the picture - so I guess he's conceptual.

kalm james said...

Wow, get the CD “triple diesel gone wild” first “sculpture”, now “drawing” mein gott, next thing we’ll be critiquing ceramics and macramé.

Just joking, this is goooood, while the painter’s away the diesel will play. Yeah!

kelli said...

The person who made the remark about drawing just said art schools don't teach it so maybe they just went to a conceptual or liberal arts program. I took anatomy and perspectival drawing but have forgotton well...math.

Corny said...

Hi TD, oops sorry, I'm not keeping up with all the PainterNYC posts.
Love that Aubrey Beardsley, he was so delightfully perverse and elegant. I was just looking at his body of work on the Guild & Greyshkul website, not sure I get what he's doing between the abstraction and figuration. I guess the link is decoration?

kalm james said...

Kelli, this is not the first time I’ve heard they don’t teach drawing in many university art programs, or painting ether fore that matter. Had a friend, a prof at Brooklyn Collage, who said they’d pretty much shut down the studio practices department and concentrated on “computer art.” Drawin and paitin’s too hard, it takes talent and determination, not democratic enough. Besides how can you make any money sellin pencils, charcoal and paper? Gotta boost revenues by hawkin hardware and soft wear. I studied with Robert Beverly Hale, one of the best academic experiences of my life.

kelli said...

I went to MICA for undergrad and anatomy was 8 hours with a model twice a week, 8 hours of homework and a working model of a hand for the final. Drawing 1 was freehanding circles 3 months until you could draw a perfect one.

zipthwung said...

I heard drawing circles is a sign of madness. Figure drawing class is boring. Live sex acts would be better.

I filled an entire 8 1/2 by 11" piece of paper with "perfect" circles when I was three.
My mom says it like it was important. I like that.

kalm james said...

Took me a heck of a long time to unlearn all that stuff.

popopop said...

i read somewhere he uses a rapidograph and not a pen

indeed the work is spatially flat, and not in a good way.

i don't get the fascination with the invented myth thing. how can you critique someones fantasy?

zipthwung said...

how can you critique someones fantasy?

Lets the games begin.

closeuup said...

Pretty sure they teach drawing at the cooper union but maybe Columbia squoze it out of him.

I know this is an elliptical one liner but you get it right?

A fantasy just has to be engaging. If not the critique is--goodbye.

dharmabum said...

my fantasy is he tries drawing while on prozac

millerhuggins said...

Kids...with their rock and roll and rapidographs...dip, dip I say. The problem is this... everyone is mildly sophisticated these days they know enough, are around enough, have a enough of a sensibility to pick out the proper clothing...they in some way also pick out the right art...why learn a way to draw when you can pick out something...the artist as a consumer/stylist. I actually like this in someway...I'm curious...I just find it terribly frustrating. With age comes habit, comes one's inevitableness, one's timeline, one's history, quirks, failures, successes, a bit of drama..humanity. Struggle is interesting only if it's real...we live in a culture that no longer appreciates a good struggle...MFA...show... retro at 35..once your public, your in...you work inevitably in relation to that situation...I miss that the interesting, talented 23 year olds of the world no longer have a time to simmer...this world needs more time to simmer. I like the drawing quite a bit.

operation enduring artist said...

this would make a beautiful silkscreen. there is nothing here (at least in this jpeg) that points to it 'necessarily' being a drawing, or for it being a work on paper for that matter.
there is something so damn imediate about drawing, that is why it appeals to many, and me. ok, so it is appealing...now what? examine what makes it special and unique and use it. this is what it seems caivano is failing to do, he is not taking advantage. it seems if he is trying the 'wow' approach. this shit is tight and ill say 'wow' but damn its dry.

zipthwung said...

jack Barth
likes mimetic and linguistic systems, as
well as
Central Park.

And now a word from our sponsor:

whats the frequency?

no-where-man said...

The Whitney Bi is irrelevant?

painterdog said...

"Figure drawing class is boring."

Now that says a lot.

Is this because your lazy and can't be bothered to try to learn to draw?

I wont get into all the reasons one should learn to draw at least a little, but its about getting used to dealing with designing or creating in 2D spcace.

You know that movie art school confidential, the scene when they are doing drawing crits of self portraits, and the one of the girl which is real bad as a drawing on any level, and they pounce on the guy who did a pretty good drawing, well that kind of sums up why one should learn or at least try ot have some ability.

millerhuggins said...

drawing lays open sensibility..it's there..no excuses...signatures tell a truth... ability is understanding meets gift. Matisse ink drawing...de Kooning a beast...Warhol ridiculously good.

millerhuggins said...

The best part of figure drawing is nakedness...what does one do in the face of nakedness...draw, draw, draw...god bless the artifice...nakedness somehow determines an analysis..talk about distance...and artifice. Art/artiface figure that.

kalm james said...

Best line in “Art School Confidential” is when Max Minghelle’s character asks the bad ass artist Jimmy, played by Jim Broadbent, what he has to do to be successful in the New York art world? His answer “Can you suck …..?” (Word deleted to avoid offending the faint of heart)

kalm james said...

Rembrandt sublime

zipthwung said...

How about the scene where Theseus cutts off the legs of Procrustes on his short bed? What if Procrustes had been short?

I think Max Minghella is supposed to be an anti-hero, despite his draughtsmanship. Just a thought.

Also - some people claim that movie was cynical, like that's a bad thing.

closeuup said...

yea, didnt they see bad santa?

zipthwung said...

turn in your toothbrush, superstar.

cobaltsalt said...

The lamest of critical comments is one resorting to notions of skill and ability. Who cares if Ernesto can draw if he can't even make something evocative or effective. He can definitely decorate an apartment. He could go into textiles, but what are his drawings doing? Well nothing more than a pretty pattern on a dress, flowers birds...yawn. maybe if he drew worse this would be better.

cha said...

Yes Kelli ...... that was the point! Art schools don't seem to value drawing enough! It's fundamental! ..... but.. from students I speak to now..... it's seen as a sideline.

painterdog said...

"Also - some people claim that movie was cynical, like that's a bad thing."

nothing wrong with a good does cynicism now and again.

brent hallard said...

There are any number of good reasons to draw, to look at drawing--good drawing. Good drawing, in a contemporary sense, would for me spell, like a previous post suggests, understanding how our three dimesional world, the one we call real, works in a two dimensional space--how the many ways this can be acheived. If would also be a shame to restrict our interpretation to the three as to how the two can come about: As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we.

Well, summer talk!

painterdog said...

"As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we."

Does anyone understand this?

Or am should I just put my hands together and bow and say yes master...

brent hallard said...

Come on PD I have a two foot role to play!
Besides it does make sense when you get rid of the stupid rimes.

kelli said...

Sometimes I'm glad I'm ironic.
or uh, the zen of nonbelieving.

prokofievgrad said...

it's a language. we draw as children and some of us carry it into adulthood and are fluent. others, can be proficient. it is not unlike learning a language when you are older, you will always speak with an accent.

the easy way arounf this is picking a style or a number of styles and coopting and rehashing.

in my humble opinion, these works have a limited vocabulary.

poppy said...

nothing wrong with drawing, i wish more people drew their subjects rather than projecting and tracing, what's the fun in that.. this guy who i knew felt it was one more skill that would take too much time.. quickest route to success i guess..
this vocab is limited, which i'm sure the artist is aware, hopefully -
ever see a matisse drawing, then have you ever seen the guy who tried to pass off his line drawings as matisses.. Mr. m's were not flat.. drawing is hard and this one bores the life out of me..

Cooky Blaha said...

Brent we're stiil waiting on your top 5 contemp painters.

brent hallard said...

I think in all best interest, cooky, tell the we not to wait!

cheese cake. said...

Late in on the discussion but I'm curious about what was mentioned about perfect circles, just curious to actually see if anyone can produce 'perfect circles' on cue.