a low point on this blog, you are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel on this one...
Stella Vine Sort of interesting story about this painting and what it did for her career.
Opening in Detroit at MONAWhen Charles Saatchi bought two of her paintings in early 2004 Stella Vine rocketed into the media spotlight. Inside Out North East meets this former stripper from Alnwick who has become the latest sensation in "Brit Art".
I think it has a nice sense of the regional. England is not big, but it has brought big things into the world. Princess Di-worship and Sex Pistols lifestyle and shocking paintings are things we can easily associate with Englishness, even if they are not part of the very highest culture, and regional (by that I also mean national) differences are fading away too quickly. Anyways this picture efficiently represents the English willingness to go too far that has lead to so many great things. Also the face is really well done and the crown is real Sargent material...diamonds!SCAB (the elder)
im all for regionalism but this is about as regional as the folk art on the walls of any bar in williamsburg. Just walk into several bars with art on the wall and compare them.The thing is is many of these paintings are earnest attempts to make sublime or uncanny images that attract and hold ones attention.This painting is definitely coming from the eyes of the folk - the gaze or whatever. Which makes the joke funnier.I never got the whole Princess di thing, but Im not british.How about that head but in the world cup? WOnder what dude said to zidane?
gotta disagree with you bluebalz; I think there's a lot to talk about here. It's an interesting phenomenon that such bad painting can be so successful. Her work has an appealing brashness and raw energy & humor/pathos; almost enough to overcome the amazing lack of skill. I would place her in context with Tracy Emin, Katherine Bernhardt, and Elizabeth Peyton.
just as good or better than half the paintings posted on this site
i think personal aspects of her work make this narrative interesting, and i agree - glib funny, Elizabeth Peyton is quite formally talented, i am not sure i can see them in the same context. Have to admit however most of what i see in the NY gallerys strikes me as the fashion of 'bad painting' almost structured and academic.
Hi Paul,Could you come over.I'm fucking bored.Maybe bring some Sonics records and some Georges Roualt paintings?ps maybe you could gimme a fucking break or something too?
definitely not even in the same universe as Peyton, formally. But certainly they share a fascination with celebrity; both are celeb portraitists. It would be interesting to see the 2 hanging together on a wall... Peyton's touch is so deft, her work would blow this away on that level, but these are very not-coy. That said, there's an East-Villageyness about them that I find a little tired or something.
Crap and more crap.....this is so baaaaaaaaaad.
This painting by Stella Vine represents one of the crises of contemporary art, not just in painting, and it’s symptomatic of an attitude that has been confounding many of the current and recently graduated art students the frequent this blog space. To paraphrase the late Harold Rosenberg, “what we have here is crappy art wrapped in a bulletproof envelope of theoretical rhetoric”. In other words, this is an example of “art” that is justified by clever arguments about “challenging” the aesthetic status quo, through philosophical rather that visual, technical, or formalistic means. Attacking the mind through the ears rather than the eyes, This is why some critics, dealers and curators can seemingly legitimatize showing a dog turd, and calling it the highest form of “art” when in reality it’s still just a dog turd. Not to disparage Stella Vine, I hope she enjoys her fifteen seconds of notoriety. But let’s not kid ourselves, good painting is good painting, most people who aren’t painters won’t understand this, but that’s why painters have to be involved in the discourse. If there are any redeeming qualities about this “painting” by Stella, it’s the fact that it shows how good “good painting” can be in contrast to “bad painting”. When the back story is much more interesting than the painting, you know you've got a problem.
Sounds to me like Stella's making the appropriate type of work considering her backstory. They're putting out a message, and it's dark - not about skill or beauty or real success. Style is inextricably linked to content, and it should be. Too bad if it looks like shit. Some stuff needs to.
Bad is the new good
no, no... not that simple. come on.
Painter,Is this really the best painting you can find? I don't want to blame you if this is really all NY has to offer, but there is so much awe inspiring stuff going on today. Perhaps you sometimes purposely choose things you don't like? - but this blog seems like an opportunity to stand up to the institutions rather than merely confirming their rhetoric.
Right On Kalm James
oh gee, sometimes I like french crullers but other times I like a good fried flatbread hot with powdered sugar.Sometimes you use the wrong fork in the right place. Sometimes you dont use a fork.Stick itI think a lot of people heard about Billy Childish in the nineties or whenever. Long time ago in fruit fly years.
I love Kalm James.Chrisjag this is the best London has to offer not NYC.
so what are the institutions telling us to do these days exactly?a dog turd is still just a dog turd, right,.. and a urinal a urinal - so what? so paint like damien loeb everyone? how much more finesse until your personally satisfied?My question is why everyone is soo worried about what everyone else is doing? who gives a crap. all these painters with ulcers will never show us anything new...
...time for a bagel sandwich...
You know that flaming bag of shit prank? I think it would be funnier if you did it to yourself somehow. Like if you had alzheimers and you forgot where you lived.
Pfft. Kalm James is a windbag. I enjoyed his rant, if purely as an example of how to expend the most syllables possible while saying absolutely nothing. 'Good painting is good painting, and this is not good painting, blah-the-fuck-blah'. Gee, how stirring. If the lame painting is more interesting that its even lamer critics, you've got a problem. And how should we judge painting? By the amount hours spent in front of the canvas? Through critical consensus of the nation's most highly circulated news periodicals? Great, can't wait to see what kind of boring, overworked mediocrity would land in Kalm's top five. Inka Essenhigh? John Currin? Zak Smith? Wangechi Mutu? Natalie Frank? All of them seem to do their homework and show up to class on time. Too bad they're all boring as dry fuck.
professor,said like a true mouth!i just did that prank to myself - after reading last comment i nearly shit myself.. I will be using this line from now on,"boring as dry fuck" - yes dat be my line.
I’d like this painting more if it was really, really bad, not just half-assed bad, weak bad, amateurishly bad, wimpy bad, wane bad. Maybe half-assed bad is another kind of bad that offends my aesthetics of “really bad”. On second thought this painting is suddenly looking pretty good in a fashionably superficial celebrity kind a hip upscale market “bad-girl” “bad”.Prof'mouth LOVE IT. Let us know when we can drop by the school and see your latest masterpiece, meanwhile back to the studio!
asked over on another board:"i noticed Stella Vine is opening up in Detroit"Yes, they need someplace to park all the unsold gas-guzzlers
Professor Mouth seems like the afternoon cocktale sessions are not working. Try starting at 9, say with a good shot of cognac in your coffee.I don't like Currin , but I think Essenhigh, Smith are kind of interesting.I've seen better examples of Stella Vine's work, this is not a good representation of her work.http://www.stellavine.comI like some of it, but she is naive in her style of painting which as a subject was beaten to death a while ago on this blog so lets not go there.
you can justify all you want about the relevance of bad painting, and i like my share of bad painting just as much as the next guy but sorry this is just BAD. it does remind me of the worst of the East village, towards the end when everyone and their mother were making paintings like this, kind of like now in a way too, people jumping in the game really late, its not that funny, or subversive, just really conservative in a way that seemingly hipster things can be.witness the conformity of a place like Reena Spaulings, where hipness is the selling point, not the work. also i noticed on the saatchi web site she is not even there....
why is everyone pissed at lebron...i mean kalm james? I don't think he was implying that making tight ass paintings that take months to complete is good painting (or maybe he was) , but i didnt' take it that way. I agree with the statement that good painting is good painting and i think most people (art types) know this. Its like morals....you don't have to believe in a god, but most people who don't, still know killing someone probably isn't considered on the 'good' list of things one does in life. There are all types of painting or painters i don't paticularly like, but i still know they are good painters! This shit isn't good painting or a good painter, its just someone messing around with paint.
One reality is that this painting has generated 34 comments. Will it stickin your memory? Will it change there over time. Will it make you rethink how you go about your practice? I never said I wasn't a blowhard, or an asshole, or jerk, just ask my friends. There are things that painters understand that can't be stated simply in words. Content is ineffable (God forgive me for quoting Clem). "Still it's that thing about painting which can't be said that keeps us talking for hours" deKooning.
Like I said she is a niave painter, its not her fault that shes getting the time of day.I think most of her work is pretty bad some of it is as someone said "bad east village end of the 80's painting". I think the last 2 paintings represent both ends of the spectrum of what is or are bad paintings
I was just looking at the Brooklyn Rail and reading review about Judy Glantzman.Now with all the discussion on expressionism and east village painting(Dix, Grosz)how come there is nothing or even a mention of this show?Its over now but hey this is good work.She has a track record, is still around making interesting work.Its not my blog but hey how about some good painters for a change.
yes, who are the "good" painters working right now??? esp. in and around NY.How subjective would that list be?!
well the one i mentioned is pretty good and I don't like all of her work. what I do like makes me think that she can paint, and has some good ideas, its good so why not.Also Judy Glantzman is not right out of grad school so that is good as well.What do mean by subjective?Of course it would be subjective, but the last 6 paintings on the blog have been pretty bad, and the theme seems to me to be mediocre to complete crap.
painter posted glantzman in may - http://painternyc.blogspot.com/2006/05/judy-glantzman.htmlthese maybe not done yet? maybe interesting -Carrie Moyer. Melissa Meyer. Wolf Kahn. Joe Fyfe. Stephen Westfall. Lois Dodd. James Hyde. Jeff Koons.i wonder if any artists have contacted painter and asked NOT to be featured. maybe.
Like any New York artist, my top ten list would be 1. ME2. Me3. Me4. Me5. Me6. Me7. Me8. Me 9. Me10. You, yes, you really. God your work is fantastic, I can't stop myself from thinking about it, and it's such a shame that more people haven't seen it. What do those turkies at the Whitney, and PS1 know. Really, you're a genius, and quite attractive I might add.
someone mentioned being angry with kalm james.. I doubt if anybody is, these are just funny reactions to funny paintings..Painting is like hockey or sports.sometimes it's fun to watch the player with finesse and sometimes it's fun to watch the guy who kicks the shit out of these players.. It all really depends what kind of mood your in.
ah, and the occasional mouth-butt for added entertainment.bravo!
Stella Vine is fine.For all those having craft pangs I would recommend a run with a gymnast! Trudy!...........; the hand, the spanner, the dart of femaleeeze...
The work is interesting. It looks like folk painting. Check out Mose T or Jimmy Lee Sudduth. Both Alabama folk artist. Both well known. I can do without the whole Princess DI thing. Thats a little tired.
have you seen her wonder woman painting? it is perfect - she is like a deer in the headlights, midspin, suddenly aware of her own vulnerability. i think that's my favorite, not into most, like some.
it is worth noteing she was born in 1969.
no where man..is that suppose to be good or bad?
for me good, i get that she seems to being grouped with a "out of grad school" frame,
sorry Painter...I just meant who is considered "good" as in.. who would a visitor to NY , coming in for just a few days, need to look up!
sad. Thrift stores should be charging a mint for their used paintings.The faux naive thing has got to reach its end of cycle soon, because i know our obsession with the mindset of 14 year old girls isn't likely to abate any time soon.The middle class emperor has no clothes already.
cha,depends on what kind of work you like.I'm not from NYC but if you like figrutive work i would check out the forum gallery, or marlborough for the 57 street fix.There are loads in Chelsea area.the DFN Gallery is ok.
And so her work, by loose consensus,doesn't work as 'painting' formally speaking.Do they work otherwise, in the larger contextof art, rather, cultural expression/commentary?Is there a unique voice that drives these images--that merits the apparent attention these paintingsalready command either by accident or otherwise?Just curious.
Thanks Painter.... Forum is Odd nerdrum I think and I like his work!! Marlborough....had Francis Bacon?! rings a bell somewhere...I like his paintings a lot!I'm sure there's lotsa choice out there...it's just a time thing!!
jpeg...on the lowest level..if you get some reaction/ attention, good or bad...something is working!
hey Joint Photographic Experts Group Critic...I was saying above that I thought that audience and voice was important - in that the "voive" was of the "people" and the audience was...1) The people (to laught2) The people (to be outraged)3) Aristocrats (to laugh)4) Aristocrats (to be outraged)Am I leaving something out?THis is an old joke, and some people think the people dont get it, because some of the people dont - but as the dude says, you can fool some of the people some of the time but if everyone is in on the joke then you have a clusterfuck.But why tell jokes in the first place? This painting depends on an "other" nominally someone to "laugh at" not "with."Stupid people? Stupid Aristocrats? Or is this not a joke at all?If this painting is not a joke - the faux naif style being a red herring, or an attempt at immediacy in the art brut sense (was art brut a joke?) then it has pathos.There are good indicators that girl can paint, or could if she tried. One is the diamond necklace, where the gesture creates the impression of lace/diamonds quickly but without fussyness. The eyes, rouge and mouth (the face part) taken together are also facile.So my interpretation is that this painting is in fact an empathetic commentary on the objectification of a real person's soap opera - that is turning a the mundane death of a real person into a myth.Which is what art does, often, if not allways. Ergo, this is a good painting and constitutes art.And it's funny.But it's ugly.
By red herring I mean "meta" or something.
Aristocrats love to be Unfloofed... it makes them feel more Aristocraty
us and them
The cognative dissonance it takes to be an american is ____
got a symphony in the OT!
At her best she's Robert Pollard...someone that's old enough to know better... but can't help the fact that they still love/need the ache of longing, passion, adolescence, most people hedge their bets with this type of stuff...Peyton for example, this gal tears into it...Rock and Roll english style, the English are not the best painters really...Hogarth, Gainsborough excluded... what they really do well is produce pop/punk/rockstars..the English have a thriving pop culture They are collectors by nature, selectors in the arts..The YBA's tried to make what the English are good at and strap it to painting...Tabloid worthiness, high design, punkish pluck, Stella Vine when she's good does this better than the rest of the lot, she risks failure on a fairly regular basis, which I imagine is good, her work is a bit painful when it does not court danger.She has done a painting of pallbearers walking through snow that is sickening in how good it is...She paints with the desparation of lost youth. That desparation usually finds other avenues in adulthood, I think it's good for painting. She is knowing.Her Diana painting is based on the primary's...she get's from blue to yellow without going through green, that gray's a bit funky but Vermeer would like it nonetheless.Yeah that's right I said Vermeer...I really think she's on par with Vermeer, cause I talked about him in the same sentence, must mean that.
Millerhuggins,I think you need to try that shit-in-a-bag trick on yourself as Zipthwung suggested a few days ago. Vermeer? Why not Joseph Cornell or Gainsborough for that matter, or anyone listed in the Grove Dictionary of Art?
gazinia, I'm having trouble locating the shit-in-bag reference... which artist is it under?.. remember it vaguely.
gazinia, just reread your comment...Vermeer does make extraordinary paintings that use blue and yellow and don't go through green...they go through the center of the color wheel and back out...it's unique in my opininon and lends the work a specific appeal. Clearly Stella Vine doesn't consciously have this in mind but she comes across it nonetheless..and I think in talking about her work it's a relative point to bring up...just a blip that crossed my keyboard.
shitbag: 3:02 pm this threadIm reminded of the Berger book "Ways of Seeing," where he sees dead people and then theres this great bathtub scene with a rotting corpse and then its all a frozen maze at Marienbad.
I vaguely remember reading the Berger book, or remember getting it and not reading it...it's fiction right? It's a nice little painting isn't it.
I thought the grey was very Gainsbourough, Miller. Glad u mentioned it.
"When the back story is much more interesting than the painting, you know you've got a problem."Couldn't agree more...
Closeuup i'll have to take your word on it regarding the grey, although it's against my better judgment when you use "u" instead of "you". It's two letters, tap-tap. that's all, two touches to the keyboard in order to not come across like a prepubescent girl.Harold Hollingsworth...I agree supress that interesting back story...no marketing, be ugly, good art always wins out.
"back story"... maybe it's like meeting a new person. First judgement by appearance and then the back story adds juicy dimension!
I priviledge pre-pubescent girls, miller. Don't u worry yr pretty little head about me.
Stella Vine is a natural. Does that bug y'all?
u2"I've got more talent in my pinkie than Lendl has in his whole body."--John McEnroe
thats y i mentioned her age. it is interesting she comes off "as a pre-pubescent girl" maybe damaged in an fun way.
In the twenty-first century we all will to be artists. So think, if you are one now--you're a step ahead. I use 'we', in a particular nourishing way. 'We' refers to 'us'. There are us. Them are them!Them would refer to those of us who are them supporting us to be them, and in the pleasantness of situation, them us in support of us/them.How, or in what way is this different to now?Good question!Before there were a limited number of matches in a matchbox. Fifty if I recount (I would purchase the box that came with fifty one). Now that we don't **** to count we are happier, and in a sense more prone to the artistic life... we among us them have these disposable lighters. Back to the more hazarded...a nice contract of temperament in the two recent posts.I'm sure!THEY ARE BOTH FINE!OOP's out of time!
John McEnroe..."You cannot be serious" is the plaintive cry of the just and good. No-where-man turn off the computer... go to the adjoining room and give your disinterested wife a big smooch... in a damaged way of course...you're a real charmer.
millerhuggins,I really think you're grasping at straws when drawing a connection to Vermeer. The only light in this painting is from the glare in the reproduction. This painting is mud. Boring boring boring. Her choice of colors is no different than my 6 year old's. (I can't rightfully draw connections between his work and anyone's throughout art history -- I take them for what they are and that's what he wants me to do.) I would be proud of him if he'd painted this and I wouldn't put it past him only my 3 year old would be asking questions for the next week about the blood coming out of her mouth. No, I'm not making the argument that my kids could do better, I'm just saying her choice of colors being in the center of the wheel is saying anything. Why not draw connections to Northern European illuminated manuscripts? Same colors and text to boot!
LOOOOVE johnny Mac. I've said it before. The man turned down 1M to play in S. Africa. Would u? Would I?Somebody paint his portrait.
so much chewing with nothing in your mouth.
There is no such thing as a good painting about nothing.We assert that the subject is crucial and only that subject matter is valid which is tragic and timeless. That is why we profess spiritual kinship with primitiveand archaic art.-June 7, 1943"No. Be afraid. Be very afraid.""I will not be afraid of death and bane,Till Birnam forest come to Dunsinane.Red, Yellow and Blue, Stuff like that.
gazinia, the connection is the simple observation of color choice. The connection is one aspect of painting, I'm talking about red, yellow, and blueness in painting or rather Painting. To make a connection between Chopin and the Pet Shop Boys based on the sound of a few notes,is just that, about those few notes...who knows what it means...it's nice to try and string a few words together as to why it may be somehow related...maybe not. The six year old's Stella Vine painting is different then the Stella Vine painting in that one can enter it knowing that an adult made it...it makes a big difference...seeing a painting and recognizing the developmental limitations(six-year-old) is different than realizing the choice of painting in a certain way...even though one's painterly gifts may be limited. Her paintings are good for painting...She paints like she really wants to paint, or rather be a painter, to participate...I respect that...all my petty concerns regarding painting and art production seem to slip off her back...she cranks it out, slaps it on the wall and takes wealthy peoples money in exchange...she shows her friends work, she buys other artist's work, she run's her own gallery...that punkish ethos combined with consumer knowingness is strange and in my opinion exciting.
miller,I'm with ya. It would've been an easier conversation with you in person than on a blog though. I would've been less shocked.
this painting was mostly likely much more fun to paint than it is to view. but i'm so bored with dealing with someone else's groovy process instead of seeing a good end result.please don't show me your vacation slides.gesso anyone?
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