Painter, this is very provocative to post this after EG. You are smart.
hairy sexy animals spotted, striped, fingers in mouths, sexually inviting, male, female genitals, hands like claws, eating oneself or licking. I think this painting belongs in the bedroom.
Women are savages in the costume of the beast. Sexed up masturbation poses depicted by the white man. Clemente is inverting the socially responsible and aesthetically appealing EG...he is vulgar. But I can see what he is saying.
That is really interesting statement Doug. I think perhaps E.G. hides the sex, the savagery of intercourse and what leads up to it in the grid, the hair is subdued, the googley eyes are made structural. If you think about it, you can control your whole body, but your eyes won't lie still. The expression is hard to subdue.
The eyes in this painting are only slits and they have no pupils. Rolled back in ecstacy perhaps. They are not having sex. They are clemente's fantasy, and I might add, I join him in his wonderment.
the background is sky. They are floating because the don't exist in real life. That is too bad.
Vulgarity is linked to crimes of passion. There is a rambunctious attitude here. The deformity of paint handling is unhidden and brings failure. Maybe there is an acknowledgement of failure, maybe not. This is one of the crimes.
There is a number you can call Chucky, if you want these type of women to visit you at your home.
This is out of the question Doug. I'm married.
Oh dear! My jodhpurs are all abuzz with desire.
From clemente Vita? Because I feel the same way. If only I could buy this gem. I guess that leads me to the issue of art as commodity, but that is a digression. I want it, I loathe that I cannot have it. The printed reproduction is no substitute. Your jodhpurs would buzz with this painting above your sleige bed.
I submit that the grid has been dispersed upon the female form by the hands of a tyrannical man in the form of animal markings. Who are we?
What? Agnes Martin is concretely a woman. Kelli, is she a lesbian and if so does that have any influence on her work. I think we can assume that Clemente is hetero. He could be interpreted as sexist if you didn't feel like Vita.
Do you think Clemente named these women? Like one would name a pet? Ashes and Templeton? Something like this?
Funny you should say that. What about Timmy and Timeout, Doug?
I am sure as hell hoping that Kelli is:1) A lesbian2) A bisexual3) Available4) A Tigress
But I digress...Agnes Martin may not be so "concretely" a woman at this point. But she certainly was when the blood was flowing through her veins.I loved her.
I am an unapologetic fan as well. I think that her endurance and unfailing optimism is actually HEROIC. I am not being fanciful here. Just really honest about how I see her. It is funny because her work is so cerebral and Clemente's work is bestial, sexual, unbridled... And E.G.'s work falls somewher in between. Oh well.
worst dude ever, totally. prolly a really nice man, but wde full-on.
I feel as though some people are trying to MANAGE my EXPECTATIONS in art. That is unacceptable sometimes.
Ad3pt is this English that you speak?
no - Nf3, g3, Bg2!!!!kings indian attack!!
Vita I am often mistaken for asexual because of my bitchy temperament, Quentin Crispish mannerisms and good grooming. This is very 80's. Like nightclub decor or Palm Beach lasdies with artificial talons and animal print schmattes. Not entirely an insult.
Well Kelli, I am certainly happy to hear you are not asexual. I dare say that I would not have thought as much from your provocative comments. Which is why I pegged you for a tigress. I am partial to the roar of intelligence and passion.
Asexual? Doesn't that mean you are not sexually stimulated? Do you know that painting by George Gross of the dark haired flapper holding a cigarette holder? That painting strikes me as asexual, but lesbians are sometimes mistaken as well. Consider Picasso's paintings.
I kind of feel for Clemente. He had they shit hyped out of him in the eighties and actually deserved much of it. There was a strangeness in his early work, odd mixtures of influences like Persian miniature painting and expressionism. I feel like the market buffed down a lot of his idiosyncracies but he has managed to hold on to something.
ad infinitum, ad nauseam, c’est la vie, crème de la crème, fait accompli, in loco parentis, je ne sais quoi, joie de vivre, mea culpa, mirabile dictu, modus vivendi, ne plus ultra, non compos mentis, par excellence, persona non grata, quid pro quo, raison d’être, sine qua non, très, verboten, and vive la différence.Zip. This is for you. Now back to the important business of elucidating the hidden truths within art. Kelli, I feel for him too. Not just sexually, but also in terms of paint handling (scumbling), not contrived, subject matter, idiocyncratic, and I am opposed to the market though I wish I could own this painting.
Chucky you are on fire today. It is very entertaining, I have to admit.One thing that irks me about Clemente is that his Persian miniature paintings were not painted by him. He farmed out the labor to people who had been trained in that tradition and that's why they look so much better than everything else he ever did. Sorry to be so harsh. I feel sorry for him too Kelli, thank you for your empathy, you set a good example.I am thinking a BFA degree from Cooper Union may do him some good. That said, I am in awe of sexual vulgarity as it expresses itself through the brush. For me the deformity is rampant.
Deformity... you mentioned this yesterday and I still don't comprehend. How is vulgarity a deformity?
I love you Chucky, in loco parentis.
You can see it in the hands Chucky. The vulgar positioning of the beastly savage women - the exaggeration is a sign of irregular desires. The hands reach for the mouth in the manner of porno but the high art aspects obscure the true perversion. He is sexually attracted to women but desires them to be hemmed in by his painterly mutations, his style is a hampering device, not unlike prison.
Chuck- a painting with a cigarette can never be asexual.Everyone feels sorry for the internationally acclaimed artist, with residences in 3 cities? Too successful?
Money isn't everything Closeitup. He may have low self esteem, that's why he won't learn how to paint.
I am really dissapointed about the miniature painting information. that discredits him in my eyes. Perhaps I am too old-fashioned, but I value the unique hand of the artist. That's just me obviously because everyone seems to hate my position on this. Why is his style hampering? That's confusing to me. now I understand why you connected vulgarity and deformity. I guess I feel badly for people who aren't well-formed. they don't always seem to be bothered by this. Asexuals for example. No offense Kelli, but I wonder what you think is natural. And if deformity is natural then it is the correct place for an artist to inhabit.
I am an advocate for this.
If I were asexual-WHICH I AM NOT-I would not smoke cigarettes.
All day long as a means for sublimating my natural desires. Closeup, that was a great point.
Does anyone think Clemente sets a good example to follow? Just curious.
Thanks for the list Chucky, Ive been trying to integrate vocabulary - emulating my heroes, there are so many. I love Roberta Smith and Jerry Saltz, Scheldhal, Kuspit, Hughes, Danto - anyone at my reading level. Hickey. I have an Elkins called "why are our pictures puzzles" - I think its used as a textbook. It argues that pictures are puzzles because certain classes of people turn them into puzzles. I don't know about that -I think pictures are intrinsicly puzzling tp all peoples.I dont know that much about art, but I'm really interested.For example, I saw a Clemente painting of a house of cards at Gagosian Gallery, which used to be in SOho, but is now in four locations at the same time. I believe this is called a franchise.Franchise is sort of the soixonte-neuf figure that describes le poisson dans le piscine, so to speak.Climbing the ladder is of course the goal?But now, here, all I see is dry brushwork - as if to say the idea is more important than the craft.Is it?So once you make it to the spawning bed, you can do these sorts of low level visual puns? Or is it the dumbness that makes them AWESOME?As Ray Crock says, "its a priviledge."
It's more important to have sexual feelings and romantic longings than to have an idea. That's what Clemente may be trying to tell us.
Tring to understand the source of pity. Wassuup, duggie?Can't paint but still has immense international acclaim. No ideas but lives a remarkable, sensual life that others dream about living?He does seem to paint too much (like Helen F.) so all the work is not consistently great, but he has come up with some stunners over the years (as has Helen to be honest). This one is not so great to me. Too decorative. But some of his stuff is great.
He could have been more of a guru, but he ended up being a gerund. He should have asked the miniature painters to teach him something.
raise your hand.1. Asbergers2. bipolar3. syphilis
None of the above. But I do have a lazy eye.
That doesn't count. If you are an artist you are at a deficit. I believe that the artist's genious is located in disfunction. That is clear from this painting. Yet, the natural order is present and so there is no deficiency in the brain of an artist. I admire this "deformity" because I think the best artists are made this way.
all of the above
Francesco Clemente was a willing beneficiary of one of the grandest art marketing hypes of the last 30 years. He along with Cucchi and Chia were marked as the “Three Cs” and represented the beginnings of a full frontal assault on the worldwide hegemony of Post-War American art. A powerful Italian critic and publisher (we’ll try to keep things vague to alleviate fears of slander) got a group of major industrialists together and pooled their cash seeing that time was right to challenge the dead-end state of American formalism. The term “Trans-Avant-Garde” was coined to give this group substance, and they pulled out all the stops in promoting the “New Italians.” Major blocks of these artist’s works were bought-in and the cash was invested to promote their images.For anyone interested in painting this marked its rediscovery after the petering-out of the minimalist and conceptual strands of Formalism, and within short order the Germans, French, Spanish, Dutch and the Russians all jumped on the bandwagon, Neo-Expressionism was born.Clemente first received recognition for his frescos, slabs of plaster that were too heavy to hang, so they just rested them on the floor leaned them against the walls. His drawing was always his strong point with his weird images and sensitive touch. When he moved to New York I was a bit incensed when he talked about having to spend a couple of days learning to paint in oils, (yeah like oil technique is that simple). Anyway his images were always interesting no matter how wane the painting. Somewhere he devolved into a social painter and started producing some of the most insipid crap imaginable, lame portraits of the glamorous folks. His show at Gagosian last year was mediocre with a few nice pieces, but a lot of vacant “wall décor for the rich.” I’d have to say that this painting falls with in that category. If you’d seen this on the wall at a grad student critique you’d probably rake the painter good. But when you’ve attained mass name recognition like Clemente you can throw out a lot of “c” grade stuff and people will eat it up and not complain. All and all he’s someone who’s gotten awfully far on what he’s got, which one has to admire, from a professional standpoint.
Kalmjames, This disrupts my optimism.
Chuck and Doug: I've been asked to host a show for BBC now entitled: "Asexual and Naysexual Deformities in Contemporary Art." I need guests and feel you too are brilliant thinkers and would lend much to the success of the show. Of course you do not need to be asexual to participate. In fact, an orgy usually follows the broadcast.
Of course you're invited to the orgy Kelli.
kalm james, that is fastinating. Watercolor is oozy like the beastial sex these languid ladies promise. I trust the artist who's able to produce works of ravaging beauty, he's allowed to have cheesey moments, his cheese is pretty damn tasty. The good kind sexual vulgarity in art is infused with the oozy slimey nature of the paint, not illustrated by a cool hand. I like hot hands like Marlene Dumas's spicey ways. Clementes lasciviousness is demostrated by the tiger girls and the paint.
Once again, my jodhpurs are abuzz. Thank you Fenton!
I've been asexual for almost 4 days. It blows. Actually it doesn't even blow.
Famous asexual Isaac Newton discovered the laws of physics through sublimation. I will not be attending this orgy and regret hearing that No-Where Man's all of the above includes syphillis. I myself am only bipolar and suffering from low level autism.Botero painting abu ghraib:http://www.revistadiners.com.co/media/Botero44B.jpgI guess some people can survive their own cliches. I really feel for Clemente. Not being ironic.
“The good kind sexual vulgarity in art is infused with the oozy slimey nature of the paint, not illustrated by a cool hand. I like hot hands like Marlene Dumas's spicey ways. Clementes lasciviousness is demostrated by the tiger girls and the paint.”Back in the day word was that while most people were planning their retreats to Club Med, Clemente had brochures from Buddhist ashrams lying around the studio. He’d check out of Soho and don a saffron robe in South Asia, "Saint Francesco". He was perceived as some kind of naïve-nouveau guru to the fashionably challenged. Now he’s got to settle for just lasciviousness? (You could get lost on those eyes though.)
see, we don't know this history kalmjames. we only know that he makes paintings like the kids.
hi i'm new
i dont want to lurk anymore. i will start to say things.
OMG this would look so hot in the Gramercy Park Hotel!
KJ if it isnt in the work, then it isnt there. Botero is only good for money laundering.WHat is irony.I
say it im a listen
Vita Sackville-West said:"I am sure as hell hoping that Kelli is:1) A lesbian2) A bisexual3) Available4) A Tigress"
If I had a saffron robe maybe things would be more exciting, right? The robe cannot obscure the problematic realities that exist underneath. I'm talking abnormal growths.
Doug suffering comes from nonacceptance. If you accept these growths they will stop itching. Unless they are rooted in your root chakra. In this case you have real problems and the ashram cannot help you.
I'm with you on this one KJ, and the three "c's" suck. This is like if matisse was in a new wave band and painted on the side. He's got some "imaginative" images, but i really can't get over the execution. This is as sexy as plastic cherries dipped in a melted hershey's bar.
Thanks Kelli. I will try to accept the growths. All I want is to understand. Meanwhile, Wade, each of your examples are enticing to me. The new wave band painter and the plastic cherry hershey mess. Your similes elicit affection for the thing you are trying to poo on.
i still feel sexy
no-where I didn't mean to harsh on your syphillis. I hear it leads to mental degeneration and crazy people are fun. Doug if you can figure out the aura emanating from these growths it will help. Unless they are inflamed red or pustule lavender. Do not get ralfed. Then you will have ooze on your hands. This orgy is starting to sound like a bad plan.
Kelli, I am sorry that you are not interested in the orgy. We do test for things like syphillis. I am bisexual, bicoastal, bilingual and am ambidextrous. I hope this is enticing to you. If not, I will just enjoy your comments here and hope to meet you one day.
Doug, we can have those treated. I have had a syphillis scare a long time ago--my hubby. But I never got it.
The image may be sexy but its like a hand-job (not to elicit more affection on your part). I look at the graygreen blue ground, the bulbous bottom of the tigress or feeble flush of the leopards forehead and my clitoris would go flaccid.
Vita at least we are not covered in the prints of the beast like these tigresses in the Clemente. It could be worse. We could be hemmed in and doomed to 2 dimensional toyhood. You seem very hearty.
Wade I do not disagree with your feelings. I just think your descriptions bring excitement. So thank you.
Vita thank you for the kind remarks. Unfortunately while I like polyamorous people I have disdain for swingers because of their homophobia towards gay men. What does it say about this painting that it brought this up as well as the topic of tacky hotel decor.Animal print: flamboyant or just plain wrong?
animal print: Miami or mall trash?
HPV is in and Sleepy coke.. hell im in on a friday so not listen to me mad dorken it up.
Oh dear, I LOVE gay men. I spent my life with one. But I understand, sort of, what you speak of. But I assure you that gay men factor into my orgies. They are spankingly refreshing.And Doug, I am hearty, although I love a long strand of pearls dangling from my breasts.
It depends on the animal. For instance who would be put off by rat fur print? Otherwise I say it is usually wrong. On another note, I know some swingers who have no disdain for gay men. In fact the opposite is true, I have seen it with my own eyes. Do you think Clemente is polyamorous in this way? At least interested in the beastial relations?
I must apologize to everuone if I am responsible for taking this thread to the realm of sex. I don't think it was just me. But I am a leopard who likes her spots, so to speak.
This sorta relates, kelli, but I've always wondered about the "caged animal" theme of the 80's pop culture, teased hair, leopard print, ripped pants, rawr! whatsup with that? And how does it relate to mickey mouse?
AND I LOVE GAY MEN!!
Vita sexuality is for everyone. You are not to blame for this phenomenon.
80's taste was so awful but our more tasteful attire has allowed Americans to become obese. Try hiding adipose tissue in these animal print jumpsuit or some neon yellow jams. But what did it mean? Teanwolf???No-Where Man this thread took a turn for the dorked up a while ago. Don't feel bad.
Thanks Doug. We are broadcasting next week, by the way, and sexuality will flow from our lips like honey from a bees ass.
This after an abstract gallagher is funny, thanks again painter. The animal prints, and this image is a lame sexualizing of the exotic, africa, and animals, perhaps that's why its enjoyable ina cheesy eye of the tiger way. How did the 80s become risque compared to today. Sometimes it seems like the US is getting more "out" and more prudish at the same time.I'm not for policing cheesy sexual fantasies, of course. I guess this is sexy cause it is cheap and naive, like a teenage tart. Maybe i'm of of the subtelty enhances eroticism school.
one the good things to come out of the 80's was Joe Strummer, well late 70's the clash...
Oh Christ I just remembered Beastmaster (the Jason and the Argonauts of the 80's). What was the meaning behind the animal prints and animal hair in the 80's? Why does the house of Versace continue? Maybe it would be sexy on teenagers but it makes anyone else look old. I feel the same way about art using Cd's, goth and silver and black paint.http://www.idmonsters.com/rtc/08/images/beastmaster.jpg
well fashion from the 80's kind of sucked. Anyway Strummer wore stove pipes.
We can't choose the decades we grow up in.Thank your your lucky cards it was not 1940's Europe, say Poland.
i kind of like some of Clemente's work but as Saltz say he over rated.I think hes being a bit unfair, as I think Clemente is a smart chap with something to say. But he does carry that 80's bad art baggage around.
80's baggage... nah. From what i see clemente's stock just split. no need to worry. Lighter-weight shares. Easier to manage. less risk, great re-entry into the market for a venerable brand. Sex is great...Why'd you ask?Hey I hear neil jenney's making a comeback from the basement at the corcoran. day traders, anyone? Let's milk this painting thang before the 08 elections...
I must say that I miss the old C. Sex-U-A-lity could've been transcendant--but see, there were the stripes and spots, babe.sorry babe.I know you're into Kajagoogoo and all,but I'm just too old to appreciate the irony of it.Cheeze. What's with the clunky horizontal keyline at thebottom of the painting? crop that out man!Would've been a much better painting if yousliced off the bottom eighth.Wassup C. Are you long term or short term?
It was larry clark who said that if youfeel good with the composition,take a step closer before taking the money shot. Spots and stripes, instead of beinganything worthy of thinking aboutis rendered here as merely decoration...all because someone didn't botherto take that extra step closer.
Aw fuckit. Fuck the 80's. It's likewhen dennis miller went snl andsteve miller went disco. The 80's.Compromise your vision withsubstandard wares, why dont you!I think the figure in the foregroundis asking me to fuck her up the ass,come to think of it.
oh shit.I think it's time tochange my username yet again.
Alright. It's a change. Maybe I'll get used tothe change from the iconic to the cheaply allegoristic.I'll have to look at his other work to see what's up.
The Clash. Now there's an example of talent that was able to appropriate fashion ratherthan the converse. Thx pdog.
but air supply rocks. Thx to the re-introductionfrom zipthwug.
Are you sayin I ain't thick Kelli? You haven't heard my air-supply-pachelbel guitar performance. Swweeet.
Clemente is a fag, as am i and my roomates. - i think Gogo is as well - i once woke up in a dandy's bed next to a naked pic. of him - well a painting on a postcard... and for some reason that was the romantic topic of the morning - Gago's dick size. man if i had any spare time i would write a book.
dude ..at least write the lyrics to the book!
sorry nowhere didn;'t mean to offendif i did - i assume so by the removed comment--i just meant that lyrics rock!
;) no i am wasted... i thought my last comment may have been off colour! (and a bit rude for students) don't worry jpeg, i am very very very hard to offend!!! when i was in school i found clemente disconserting (he came on the art in nyc tapes right between schnabel and basquiat i have grown to really enjoy his work in the past few yrs!
thats what w-burg is a bunch of kids who moved from the midwest thinking it was 1982 from there last artschool class and choose to re-build it in all its glory.
Now dennis miller is a conservite with a capitial "C", and he likes GW.Yeah that's an interesting shift.
Wow I do no not want to be the huevos on the rancheros of this hangover breakfast. Are you kids OK?
se necessite huevos para el desayuno?
I think Clemente is thinking about the potential sexual possibilities of Egyptian art. Goddesses embued with feline prowess equals pure sexuality. She is licking her fingers because she knows there's nothing more worthy worth licking. Or he. Or I'm too late in saying this.
Spots, stripes, shapes and colors. The apparent sexual innuendos are gratuitous. He's another good designer, so get over it. What’s so bad about that?
qumquatpie. Who's upset about it?
Hi allIt is a good idea to start using enviromentally safe and animal friendly (non-toxic) substitutes when grooming your dog. You must groom your dog's whole body including the legs, tail and underbody if you want to do it right. You must groom certain dogs from the skin outward to truly be effective in taking care of their coat of hair and keeping it healthy. Comb through the unseen healthy hair and remove the shedding hair; this is what most groomers do first before cutting your pet's coat. You must groom some animals all at once, while some other animals have so much hair that it is easier to do a little at a time each day.http://www.pet-grooming-boarding.info/
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