5/23/2006

David Salle

96 comments:

burrito brother said...

Hey David, I spoke with Jin Meyerson and he really wants his swirl-effect back.

closeuup said...

this panders to the moment--if the moment is 1995. i guess this guy has lost it for sure

cadmiumredlite said...

middle aged guy discovering photoshop, oh wow.

Cooky Blaha said...

I heard someone refer to these as the anus series, and they were not joking

no-where-man said...

there is something going on here, -put these beside a recent Rosenquist and Koons...

bluebalz said...

remember that he was at one point considered one of the most important contemporary painters, the one with all of the "buzz", for a while. the one everyone was talking about, like it or not, could be a reminder to all of you out there, who think you have careers that fame is fleeting, that almost nobody got as "high" as he did , got as much attention from the media etc, the pages in vogue, etc. so a slow long career seems to look really good right now compared to say, David Salle. the work did not hold up for me, especially these photoshop paintings.

artgirl said...

I don't mind the collage aspect but that's about it.

Brangalina said...

The background is nice people having sex on the lawn. They gave me motion sickness. I think that is a pretty good trick.

Vlahos Boyiajees said...

This is a garbage painting from an over-rated painter.

SurvivorNYC said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Vlahos Boyiajees said...

1996 called, it wants it's painting trend back.

SurvivorNYC said...

I am not sure how old Salle is but I think it is great if he is using photo shop if he is older. Why should it be for the young guys alone? I love that my 90 year old Grandma sends me email. Staying with the times makes us less alone.

There was a painting with smurfs in it that I remember liking from this show.

carol es said...

Oh, oh no. Lord have mercy. I don't like this at all. Is this guy a famous artist? You'll find I don't usually know of all that many painters like the rest of you, although I do know some. To me this work is just awful, and while the sex people are adults (and having sex), it still looks kinda like a Henry Darger rip-off to me, especailly the coloring of of the background. The main swirly shit is the worst part of all, and what's that coming in on a slant from the lower right? Does that represent a double helix or something? Or is it a frosty pine tree? The airplane is like, I don't know... I can't believe I've written so much about this ugly thing already. Seems like the artist was trying to impress too many art critics at once.

GrandmaNelly said...

The thing I have always like about Salle is that everything is made in bad taste. Good taste is so much easier to do than bad taste.

It seems a lot of young artist are making Salle influenced work now. Natalie Frank comes to mind.

closeuup said...

i see, so he's AHEAD of the bad taste curve. Interesting. I'm not hip to the irony of the twirl filter yet. Give me a month or 2.


I have liked his work in the past.

Cooky Blaha said...

80s painters..who held up?
I still like some early Donald Batchelor, but by now hes kinda just putting out product. When I was a kid he was my fav contemporary painter.
I was never crazy about Fischl but I still give him his props for being capable.
So much Schnabel looks like a huge mistake. my mind stutters when I hear somebody likes the plate paintings. Salle, his stuff always looked so squeezed out of a theory, even if a few had resonance.
I think the Koons from the past few years are completely predictable and unoriginal.
Peter Halley is better at putting out magazines...

By the way, if Salle's hotness fell off (which it did in terms of popular opinion I guess) , these were still going for like 20k at least, right?

closeuup said...

Kids, go take a coffee break, you wont get this...

I gotta say--I agree its a bitch geting old, but there are all these dirty old men artists around who--instead of being funny about it like Nabakov--just inflict their ugly cynical disgust on us, like Woody Allen or Salle.

Its hard to keep yr dignity, but cant u try?

Cranky T. Critic said...

Twirl on manga action -- it's so HOT right then!

zipthwung said...

The devils triangle allways captured my imagination. People like Von Daniken wrote some nice books about how the Nazca lines were actually landing pads for UFO's and the pyramids were built using extraterrestrial technology.

Well here we have an opening - a dialating colon if you will, but it could also be a mouth, with an attendant voice. Butternut swirl. The pornographic wallpaper in the background a part of the macro-micro holographic postmodern fold.

Salle creates a wormhole or intestinal tract, into the future present. Not unlike Erik Parker or any of the other colon painters.

THe topography may be different, but the simularity is in the emphasis on ordering information, the rhizome surrounds the sleeping McGuffin's cottage.

What stream of interstellar spew will excape this singularity?

Run children.

Run.

I love the eighties said...

wow, you guys really suck. Salle was an awesome artist and his contribution to the dialogue around post modern painting was fucking major. Synthesising elements of painting, pop, photography, conceptual art, appropriation and theater he made some really smart work.
Burrito Brother your post was totally lame. Meyerson wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it wasn't for painters like Salle. And before you start shitting all over meyerson, take one second to think about your own work and imagine what people could say about it. I'm so fucking sick of these snarky comments from people hiding behind anonymity or cute little pen names. Your comment was just totally unnecessary.

So many ways we think about painting now wouldn't exist if it wasn't for his work.
Bad descisions, self loathing and an exploitative art system are what have contributed to Salle's fall from grace. Buy you know what, buddy is still there slugging away almost 30 years later. That's more than can be said about any of the snott nosed, insecure babies that read this site. Learn a little history and show some respect bitches.

serena said...

Oh, Dave. Pained aversion of eyes.

I got really, really excited when I discovered David Salle in, oh, 1989 or so, when I was still a callow girl. After assiduously aping him for a semester I discovered, surprise, that his 'high concepts' and dramatic visuals were easy to copy, absurdly shallow, and utterly non-resonant over time. And lo, in 2006, this 'painting' is utterly pathetic, as all you astute persons have noted above.

Such a tragedy.

serena said...

i love the eighties? I thought your comments were worth taking seriously, so I clicked on your profile. I discovered, to my dismay, that someone is hiding behind an anonymous, cute little pen name. Unlike myself, who is dramatically, foolishly vulnerable to anyone who cares to take a pot shot at my photograph or my personal life.

Such a tragedy.

I love the eighties said...

hey take it easy cutie. I'm just setting my shit up now. I'm reconfigguring it as we speak so don't worry. If i can get off my ass and stop doing coke, it may just be up by days end. I might even post a naked picture of myself.
How's that for foolishly exposed:)

carol es said...

well i hope your nakedness isn't much worse than this salle painting.

i like serena's blog.

I love the eighties said...

carol, your first post said you didn't know who salle was. You have to get off the computer and walk over to your local library and do a little studying before anyone will take you seriously. you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I don't mean to be unkind. But you are talking out of your ass. Ignorance is not bliss. It's lame.

no-where-man said...

i agree (as usual) with the 80's AND i think there is something deeply psychology intriguing with the megastars approch to these "photoshoped" "paintings".

burrito brother said...

First of all ILUV80Z, it's 'bitchez'.

Second, I agree with you, Salle has some great great paintings out there, the mid-80's stuff with the overlaid line work, before they got too graphic. So does Halley, Baechler and even Schnabel. I don't think anyone's dissing what he's done in the past, but c'mon, did you see this monstrosity? It has, shall we say, a not-so-fresh feeling.

Yeah, I'm sick of the snarky comments too. They are really 'unnecessary' unlike all the other very 'necessary' comments on this blog or frankly, all blogs. Chill out dude, it's a blog.

wod zar xam said...

This painting looks to me like the psychedelic epiphany of an otherwise pacific middle aged man. It's like a scene in some to-be-made movie where the family man in Wellfleet, Mass, gets slipped peyote in his stuffed Quahog and suddenly his succinct summer world of beach towels, Cape Air plane rides and frolicking family members gets twisted into some sort of proletarian bad trip. He stares and stares at the golden spiral of the shell, while the world around him devolves into base elements and fleeting visions.

This piece is battling with cinema for effect, and tussling with postmodern concepts of digital process and found-art self consciously. The palate is full of kitsch bubblegum colors, and the scene constructed is a distant manner with over dramatic figures and $10 Photoshop filters. I think DS should get a little more credit than to think that he is doing this without intent.

Here, I think, DS is using plastic emptiness to illustrate the hopeless nature of the everyman's modern spirituality. This is a moment constructed out of the painterly equivalent of cardboard cutouts and movie set backdrops, so any injected spirituality reads like the empty hope that (maybe) it is. There is no mystic element to this work, rather cheap special effects. I think he is siding with an existential view of painting - which looks very at odds against most of the more idealistic contemporary expressionistic / naive works that we see today. I think Salle's commentary on the fallacy of the "mystic" hope of painting, perhaps set forth by his roots in a more skeptical and banal period of art.

carol es said...

I love the 80's: Don't tell me what I should do. You don't know anything about me. I don't need to know art history in its entirety to have an opinion. My opinions are just another viewpoint with or without your approval. I've spent more time in a library than most people. I don't care if you don't take me seriously: I'm not very serious. I don't take you seriously either. I am just responding to the art I see, so go blow it out your ass mother fucker.

I'll cut you.

wod zar xam said...

Interesting... when I first moved to New York about 2 years ago, I lived in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. One day I was walking around and saw someone unloading paintings out of this amazing looking modern building stuck in oddly among the brownstones and small businesses on Hansen Place. This painting, with the plane in the corner, looked a lot like one of the ones that was being carried out into a waiting truck.

Having wondered about that building before, I asked a guy looking on if it was a gallery. "No this is my studio", he said. As it turns out, I'm just realizing, that was David Salle.

Article on Salle's Studio Move to Ft. Greene

exu said...

serena,is that Your real name?

zipthwung said...

"So many ways we think about painting now wouldn't exist if it wasn't for his work."

Let me count them....

Did he invent overlapping spatial planes? Outlines over solids? Multiple vanishing points?

Did I get that from him...or photoshop...or the Greeks or cave painting?

Putting images next to each other - did I get that from Rosenquist...or cartoons or the Greeks?

Maybe someone can explain succinctly what part of the current cultural lanscape he was the progenitor for.

I want to thank him personally for his contribution.

Anyone ever hear David Salles very modern album "Every Silver Lining Has a Cloud?" Its as good as Scheldahl's early poetry.

Not saying I'm better, just saying hope I die before I go to Margeritaville like Ashley Bikerton.

closeuup said...

man i like ashley bickerton. He survived the 80s. Under the Volcano. You have to beat the devil.

DS isnt giving us enough.

exu said...

flat,dry.the more you zoom in,the flatter and drier it gets.ugh.

zipthwung said...

Thats pretty cool wod. Reminds me - just the other day some asshole told me to keep moving because the entrance had to be clear. Evidently they were shooting a movie or something. SOme dude is getting a hot dog and there are all thse extras dressed like regular people only they all have sodas and hot dogs and stuff.

My friend said hey, that's Chris Rock.

I was all "It cant be, Chris Rock is an eight foot tall bug eyed madman.

Ever read Scheldal's poetry? Ever listen to Schnabel's album?

Every Silver Lining Has a Cloud.

I bought it for a dollar.

Gnarley dude. Gnarley.

zipthwung said...

Wow, look at that. I made a mistake.

burrito brother said...

no Exu man, Serena is her stripper name. Serena Sanchez.

Graphic Designer said...

Read Mira Shore's first chapter in wet....as always, no one ever talks about Salle in a femminst point of view. no one mentions how sexist his paintings often are...rather they hide behind other reasosn of why they are so great.

These paintings are a joke.

closeuup said...

no one mentions how sexist his paintings often are

hes a dirty old man, like woody

there i mentioned it...twice

no-where-man said...

god lighten up people on the DL, boys will be boys - besides i think it is more "women as icon"

closeuup said...

naaahhh. its just an old guy that cant make fun of himself. in a way thats funny for us all. beat the devil, e.

Dennis Matthews said...

jin meyerson rocks this.

wod zar xam said...

I really don't understand why everyone is trashing this painting. Other than subjective and fashion-goggled knocks like "the paint is too flat" or "looks too much like Photoshop"... what’s wrong with this painting? Is it illegal to repaint pop images (unless you are Darger) or realism (unless you are Minter) or candy colors (unless you are Schutz)? If you do all three of these things at once, and still remain apart from Jeff Koons, is that OK? Personally, I don't see why not.

To me, this painting seems edgy and well painted and looks to be saying something interesting. What more do we want from a painting? No, it doesn't look entirely of the moment, but it still comments upon current culture effectively. To me, in a way, its minutely dated appearance is a great weapon of intrinsic perspective and increases its power. I think, in 10 or twenty years, looking back at this painting along side a lot of the other work that is going on right now, this one might stand up pretty darn well. It is icier, less giving, and in a way that might be more "true", or a least an interesting counterpoint by a veteran artist to the touchy-feely, hippie dippy vogue.

Would we like this painting better if the artist was relatively unknown?
Even with acute public knowledge of the artist's career, I feel these works can stand as new and interesting. I feel like Salle is re-examining his previous work under an updated spotlight, and not without some self degradation and obvious confusion about what he had been doing in the past. I think that makes for a very interesting body of mid to late-career work.

GrandmaNelly said...

Hey 80's I like the sound of you. Much respect is needed to the artist posted and to the host of this site. This is a blog it isn't Artnet, no ads, no staff so don't take advantage anymore.
If you want to say some really nasty stuff about someone start your own, nasty site.

serena said...

BB, how did you know? I am going to have to be more careful about career overlap.

Carol, your site is fabulous. Y'all, just because Carol never heard of David Salle doesn't mean she's been wasting her time. Her work is witty, original, fun and gorgeous.

kelli said...

Graphic designer: Mira Schor (Rochelle Feinstein etc.....) How can someone who makes bad paintings with a scrap of lame text know anything about painting???People don't have to write books like Opera or the Undoing of Women. You can write your own damn opera. Write a better opera. Maybe include something in the libretto that isn't about Martha motherfucking Stewart. Call it Wet if you'd like to. Stop acting like a bunch of second rate Salieris and develop a little bloodlust. Cindy Sherman is one of the only artists who came out of the 80's not looking like a dinosaur. If you really like sitting around the campfire of Western Civilization groveling on your knees in your matching gyrrl scout uniforms don't expect me to come toast marshmallows with you.

no-where-man said...

do your self a favor - google David Salle maybe add pastiche... this is from the "vortex" paintings

http://www.freenyc.net/archives/images/dp_110205-thumb.jpg

scale matters.

bluebalz said...

kellli, you have finally gotten on my nerves. and how can you comment on someone elses bad paintings when yours are just as bad, and in 20 years will look just as outdated as you think theirs. give me a break. you really sound like a mean nasty can i say bitter person,and too smart for your own good, i have seen one of your paintings at the last armory fair, and i was underwhelmed. you say how can some lame text artist know anything about painting, well cant i say how about someone that makes lame paintings of semi porn, tackily realistic women with their legs spread say the same thing?

Thunderpal said...

round round baby round round you nasty bunch of nobs, Pow! I shoot you all.

bang bang rock and roll.

kelli said...

Blueballz please look up Maslowe's heirarchy of needs. Groveling slave mentality isn't on it. I rarely make negative comments about individual artists but Mira Schor is weak. I've heard this critique of Salle's work before and it's tired.

SurvivorNYC said...

I vote Bluebalz, Exu, and Averywhitelabels off the island.

Kelli I really like that painting at Armory.
And maybe you are to smart for your own good, but not to smart for ours. That was really unfair of Bluebalz Kelli never even says anything negative about artist.
I have just gone and reviewed past post.

Closeup on I am on the fence about you

BB, I like but seems more angry.

Zip, I can not always follow but that is my fault. You seem always fair.

No where man, a zip apprentice maybe.

Prof. mouth I love you even though you are angry. It is only when needed.

JD thoughtful

Carol I am also watching you closely.

I am forming alliances here.

booze rots your teeth said...

Hi Survivor! It's the Eye of the Tiger, no?

The most valuable players of PNYC don't seem to comment anymore.

brian edmonds said...

Look, Salle's work from the 80's (at times) was much better than this. His images were rougher overall but they had some kind of snap or punch to them. This painting is awful. The imagesare lame and the color scheme is terrible. I think he is a great painter and if you are talking technique he is very solid. But stylistically the paintings are getting weaker. Maybe this is a transitional period and the paintings on the other side will be memorable.

kelli said...

I've heard the critique of art as master narrative used to dismiss artists like Ashley Bickerton, Salle, Matthew Barney and Vanessa Beecroft who are a thousand times better than Mira Schor. Bickerton subverts it to comment on colonialism and vanity and Beecroft uses it in a more reverential way. We live in a brutal class system not a utopia (feminist, Marxist or otherwise) and master narrative is both impicit in painting and a structure painting attacks. Salle fits into a long tradition of collage as political art. The fact that his work is irritating and disjunctive is part of the point. If you could own the work of any of these artists tell me Schor is what any of you would pick. Glenn Ligon is a far more abrasive and less glib artist using text. And if you have no attraction or attraction/repulsion to master narrative painting is not the medium you should be working in. Just write books.

no-where-man said...

SurvivorNYC, maybenot.

"fair use" puts a twist on collage 2006

brambles said...

Kelli, nobody is championing Mira Schor's painting here. It obviously pushes your buttons. I agree that her work is weak & lame, and she (and her pals( uses it to illustrate her feminist books & journals, but so what -- who the hell cares? Nobody is paying attention to her anyway. One person cited a book she wrote, not a painting. Not worth getting yer panties in a bundle over.

kelli said...

Brambles the truck from Rent-a-Center pulled up and my ovaries were repossesed months ago. People were making this same argument about Salle in the 80's and it intrigues me. Fischl's work was more voyueristic but the argument was made less often. Why? I think he fits into a tradition of collage which included Schwitters,Hoch and Rosenquist. So I'm throwing out a question. Is he part of that tradition and is this type of collage political, abrasive or just random.

JpegCritic said...

Kelli -- This is interesting.... Is pomo a tradition rather than a bygone moment in history? I think its possible, considering Roman politics and Indian art. Both collages. Borrowers of culture... but agents of refinement at same time (um, of course romans refined politics, not art)

wade said...

Hey Kelli, jargon is an excuse for not having to think... Also a useful way to keep people in their place-- I mean, isn't it obvious that all painting has to do with master narrative? Whatever the f___ that means. Unlike someone who wants paint to be words--better to understand you with-- you want words to be paint... your use of disjunctive is more like brushstroke than a word.(oops, that's a compliment)

Anyway,why would these be political. I think a more interesting question is why they lack the tension of some of the 80s painting. In those, there really was a disjunction between the slick ad cliche and the physical rendering, like two already knowns juxtaposed and become more strange.

Again, haven't seen the new ones in person but to me they lack that je ne sais quoi of the older stuff-- maybe they are painted too well-- they don't seem as boring or as suprising. Like, maybe he should be doing ads for Boeing.

wade said...

Except I hear Boeing planes have two wings an not just one.

On second thought, I think this is supposed to be zen po-mo meditation swirl mandala- groovy.

Graphic Designer said...

Yes, I am only talking about Mira's writing...the essay on Salle.

Like all art, I still look at Salle's paintings formally as something that I can learn from. Sure he's doing interesting things with the painting, with the history of many different aspects of art...but when it comes down to it, he is just one of the artists that seems to be somewhat sexists. Honestly, this is a new area for me to travel down. My teacher from BFA assigned many femmist texts for our class and I am now realizing how important these have been.

Maybe it's a step in the right direction that Salle is painting men and women having sex. Maybe he is trying to make his point clearer---making it less sexist. I don't know honestly- I don't know his work well enough.

It is important for me, as a male, to question my role as a male and as a male artist. What does it mean to paint an "attractive" female body in a painting? What dialoge am I engaging in? This is interesting...and important for all artists...I feel Salle hasn't made an attempt to talk about it with respect to Femmnism.

Kelli, if you want to Diss femmist thought becuase Salle's paintings are awesome then I think you are missing the point of why I mentioned MIra's texts. We need to keep talking! we need to have a dialoge...we need to question. You putting down her paintings as a way to not talk about what's really at stake (Salle's paintings in a crtical way, and her writing and thoughts which you didn't talk about specifically AT ALL- which makes me not give a shit about what you say)

I have always loved the Red Hot Chilli Peppers but am only now questioning how sexist their music may have been or still is.

I feel like everything I"m saying is old news, but we will always need to question and push ourselves so we can be better people and better artists.

Graphic Designer said...

and also Eric Fischel's work is conecptually more important to the dialoge of art. Have you heard him talk in interviews? He's not bullshitting...he's dealing with some heavy shit. He truley cares about humanity and the state of the world.

Whether he's doing it in the best possible way is questionable. Formally, his paintings are kick ass. Maybe becuase I don't know his influences that well.

Conceptually he has been an inspiration of mine to critcally think about who I am and what I want to say in my art.

Professor Mouth said...

Survivor, you suck.

You voted Averywhitelabels off, and they're the only person I've ever liked from their posts alone. He/She once stood up for me. And now I stand up for them. Fuck you.

Fuck you especially for being 'on the fence' about carol. He/She is a massive idiot. Same goes for BurritoBrother. I haven't forgotten about that 'Amy Sillman is just a sloppy Julie Mehretu' nonsense, BB. You ought to have your eyes revoked.

If you can't follow Zipthwung, it's actually NOT your fault. Zipthwung is a hyper-pretentious douchebag who jacks off to every Alfred Jarry reference he can muster. Major gasbag. Best avoided.

Onto the painting: I was shocked to learn that early David Salle paintings actually rock. Hard. They look like Martin Kippenberger went seriously baroque. If that sounds bad to you, you're WRONG.

So imagine my double-surprise to learn that new David Salle paintings are over-thought, fussy, and 'ten-years-behind-schedule' obvious. This painting fucking sucks. Seriously, it's like looking at a fifty-year old man wearing a pair of GIANT low-hanging rave jeans he bought in 1995. Except in 2006, and he's 61. And he's still wearing the jeans. Which would actually almost be cool, if this painting didn't still look so shitty.

And can I say how truly sad (and sadly revealing) it is that Painter has lifted her Only Painting Rule to include JOE FIG'S INANE, UNDERGRAD-CLASS-PROJECT miniatures of painter's studios? On the scale of lame Meta-Art, Joe Fig earns -100,000,000,000 suckage-points. I mean, wasn't this blog around for the last Thomas Hirschorn and Jon Kessler shows? Fucking disgraceful. Painters who can't talk about sculpture give painting a bad name.

JpegCritic said...

Tension in the 80's? Who'd have thunk!
All I remember was smooth Jazz and Hall & Oates...
and aspiring graphic designers like robert longo...
Besides, Kippenberger was doing all the tension --
only we didn't know it back then.

dirty girl chick said...

Prof. Mouth

Your straight forward comments are much appreciated.

Who gets your votes for the best and worst curator in NYC?

iuchocoa said...

I wonder all the peeps who are so quick with a myopic
dig; what does your work looks like?
Maybe the owner of this blog could change the format; so people who post have to show a picture of one of their paintings or art works.
With that being said,
it is nice to see the line up of the pictures chosen, even if the comments sound either uniformed or condescendingly know-it-all-angry.
Maybe there are just bad, undistinguished art teachers who got that job by being phony ass poneys to the right powerbroker- they pass on their lack of vision to to you guys with dilluted references to the latest art magizine kind of like a gareth james show.

Cooky Blaha said...

good point on fig and salle, mouth.

@designer-its the 21st century, who gives a shit if the peppers are sexist or not

the thread on militant art bitch about ben-tor was interesting related to this subject

Cooky Blaha said...

you know, a lot of people come on here whining about how harsh the comments are...I agree to a point, but in some ways its actually refreshing--as an opposition to the overwhelming trend of art critcism in the last 15 years to simply blanket a show in descriptive phrases or just reiterate what can be seen. I can count on my hand the number of times I've seen an artreview with any balls in relation to opinion, strong personal views, etc. In that sense, the critical gripes on here can be refreshing..though I do agree that taking it to personal shit is going a little too far and what not

iuchocoa said...

whining?

please cooky blah don't try to dumb down what I wrote-

Cooky Blaha said...

Im just saying I've seen plenty of positive stuff as well..the Condo post for instance

zipthwung said...

P mouth says-
If you can't follow Zipthwung, it's actually NOT your fault.

"Actually" - How about "simply"? Or better, "certainly"? I don't know what the term for that sort of qualifier is, but lets discuss it, shall we?

1) Zipthwung is a hyper-pretentious douchebag

I prefer "meta-pretentious" but if you must then why not just "extremely pretentious?" Innacurate though that may be.
Uneccessary hyper-bole, dude.
Simply pretentious.

...who jacks off to every Alfred Jarry reference he can muster.

Fuck that dude.
Fuck him.
And what the fuck are you talking about? Examples?

Most Feminist theory sucks, near as I can tell. By turns humorless, shrill (what did I do to you?), or worse, pedantic (what did I do to you?)

Any quotes on how unqualified quoting of sexism is in itself sexist?

Something about reification and then I'd tie that into how irony is allways serious about something.
And language is never original since everyone has to use the same words except when someone invents one like gnarley, which means the same as awesome, which, although not precise, could be explained by analogy to anyone but an unfeeling robot.

In regards to Salle, any attack on his gender politics (what is he saying, really? Clearly nothing) is clearly an affront to his intelligence, such as it is. And is it? And further - should painters be smart or can I go ahead and keep huffing away brain cells with my buddies? I long to be just one of the crowd. Sweet oblivion. I like ribs, too.

And pastiche - Too bad Schwitters is mostly BandW - maybe if someone colorized it for me like Salle, I could look at it more. Still, I'm a fan. But film has a bigger influence on me than painting as far as pastiche goes. I like to look at paintings about 1 frame every four seconds, on a loop.

Get offa my nerves and into my mind.

exu said...

there's a hell of a lot of sexual tension here...

no-where-man said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
no-where-man said...

funny painting has more of an influence on my video then film...

"In the 1970s he attended the newly established California Institute of the Arts, where he began applying film techniques, such as montage and split screen, to painting."

Also see David Salle - "Search and Destroy," His feature film,
his scupture and set design.

circle of life.

closeuup said...

schwitters (not really b&w--check out elderfields book) didnt really do much of the sort of imagistic collage that Salle is doing. I would compare Schwitters ore to Jin. Schwitters took the detritus he picked up on the street and made compositions as beautiful as in a renaissance painting. Just to point out that he could, and to elevate the garbage by making it aesthetic. Good work for his time. Jin has reloaded the garbage theme--referencing all the junk our culture has to offer. And he's not composing, so much as just throwing it all together and expressing the overload.

Salle is doing an imagistic collage, more like Hannah Hoch or Rosenquist, or many others.

I do have a hard time reading Salle's meaning because I think he is deliberately being canny about it. But he is definately on sexual subject matter. I guess my read is that he's sick of his desire but it wont go away. And he knows if it goes, he's dead. Subject of many artworks.

This painting reminds me of a Bob Dylan song--what doesn't:

Every day is the same thing out the door
Feel further away then ever before
Some things in life, it gets too late to learn
Well, I'm lost somewhere
I must have made a few bad turns

I see people in the park forgetting their troubles and woes
They're drinking and dancing, wearing bright colored clothes
All the young men with their young women looking so good
Well, I'd trade places with any of them
In a minute, if I could

SurvivorNYC said...

Prof. Mouth thanks for saying I suck. Averywhite may have stood up for you. Although I am surprised you use that as criteria for liking someone but Avery hates everything for no reason you seem to have reason.

zipthwung said...

"Search and Destroy," - enjoyed that - saw and "Swimming WIth Sharks" - and "To Die For" around the same time or its all in my mind - in any case - Swiss Family Robinson and Fantasia are formative experiences for me. Go DIsney! Great foam rocks - I'm sure you can make a connection, meaningfull or not.

Yeah Schwitters uses colors, I knew someone would call me on that. But still, print technology has changed and the palette with it. Lots of that old collage looks brown when it used to look whit and stuff...fade, fade away.

closeuup said...

I went to the post office to get some stamps--he asked me "Flag or Disney?" Yes, that's the choice isnt it? I didnt say that, I just thought it. I said: "Disney".

I dont really like narratives. They seem manipulative. On the other hand, I like them when they let me know that they know they are being manipulative. Then we can all relax and have fun. Like the Madonna vid on Erins blog.

no-where-man said...

:) i can't wait to go see her. and i like salle. i don't know y... maybe it just reminds me of school where it felt safe and like there was a world with 'right' and 'wrong'

so on a postive note - anyone if you were invited to 'pitch' a VOD download section to a network - with a Fine Art spin, what kind of things would you include?

Art by Falco said...

Excellent site. Really enjoyed it. Thanks!

traderguy said...

This painting has had more comments than anything else shown here. That the majority of these comments are negative and strongly so likely means this work really has something going for it (the consensus is usually dead wrong). I'd bet that in 10 or 20 years people are more likely to be still talking about this work (and other Salle work) than anything else that's been posted here.


Wasn't painting "over" till Salle, Schnabel and Fischl "rediscovered" it in the late 70s and 80's. Most of the stuff shown here would IMHO owe these guys quite a debt - even if they are old(er) white males.

Great site even if a lot of the comments are a bit ego-centric and
sophomoric.

devinlevin said...

wouldn't it be great to have a building in the city and a studio out in the Hamptons. Gee whiz.

exu said...

traderguy-this is a blog with a lot of artists on it-you weren't expecting EGOCENTRIC???

Vlahos Boyiajees said...

What? Artists are self-absorbed? When did this happen?
Thank God everyone else in the world isn't. As far as "sophmoric" comment I think judging everyone here as beneath is going to alienate you. So play nice.
I don't think everyone is commenting on this painting cause it's evocative or revolutionary. People are trying to understand why Salle, with such a rich history of painting, would paint something so annoyingly goofy and ugly. I saw his other works online, not in person sadly, but I wouldn't trek down the streets to see these "vortex" paintings. They just seem like things I've seen before. He is a mid to late career artist. I expected something more interesting than photoshop swirls on a people doing-it wallpaper background. I don't think these are horrible. I retract the 'garbage' comment I made earlier. That was harsh. These paintings don't do anything for me. They are a stylistic cacophony, surreal and candy-coated car crash and that's why we are looking and talking about it.

kelli said...

A victim of his influence on other people. It looks familiar and old because other people are indebted to it and improved it with computer programs. I've been defending him because I think he's historically important. I have more 80's love for David Wojnarowicz and ugly sincerity.

wade said...

Maybe he was trying to make an ironically bad pop-culture pastiche painting and he just really suceeded.

Or possibly the problem is the painting seems unaware of its own bland humorlessness, which makes it even more annoying or frustrating.

no-where-man said...

correct me if i am wrong but isn't most Art that proves to be 'evocative or revolutionary' over time considered 'goofy and ugly' at its time of conception?

hinde site is always 20-20

cadmiumredlite said...

can we move on now?

Vlahos Boyiajees said...

I think Mathew Barney and Paul Macarthy both make work that is impossible to penetrate intellectually. Barney focuses on hybrids of mythological figures. He takes something traditional and screws it up. McCarthy takes innocent pop figures and perverts them and takes them on walk through the dark side of mortality. These paintings are just as complex as the former artists. They are complex collages of seemingly random imagery that renders them inconclusive. The only unifying web is the style in which they are painted. They are like dreams that cannot be interpreted. Dreams are more innocent than imagery created during consciousness.

artgirl said...

I'm ready for the next painting! and I'm feeling great today because I just quit my crappy office job!

zipthwung said...

"so likely means this work really has something going for it"

I know a lot of people (students mostly) started painting in the style of but I think thats because the art magazines were full of the stuff...but then why were the art magazines full of the stuff?
Because it was the best stuff out there.

Why was it the best stuff out there?

It just was.

No one really read the art magazines.

Did they?

JpegCritic said...

His only fault with this painting is that he over-thought it. Every element references each other so heavy-handedly so that nothing remains subtle. No slippage. Not even deliberately. All signage... we get what sells.. the piercing, cum-laden coital signage.

As opposed to the piercing cum-laden sign.
Which is what his project in the early dayz seemed to propose.

Self-assuredness is a gift.
God giveth, God taketh away....
....

wod zar xam said...

They are like dreams that cannot be interpreted.

Hardly. I found this painting really easy to interperate. Its is composed almost entirely of digestable symbols, and thus its really easy to create a story from it. Almost every other painting on this page right now is a lot tougher to interperate, in the narrative sense, than this one - either because they give you too little (Bruno, Hesidence, Coates) or they give you a lot of one thing (Snead, Glantzman).

Vlahos Boyiajees said...

Hardly. I found this painting really easy to interperate. Its is composed almost entirely of digestable symbols, and thus its really easy to create a story from it

If it's so easy why not take the time to interpret than to just say it's easy to interpret..? For me I don't want to break it down because I can't find it interesting enough to do so.

wod zar xam said...

If it's so easy why not take the time to interpret than to just say it's easy to interpret..?

I did... its in my first post on this topic. Probably around #20.

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