Fascism has been examined so many times in art and in film "using" it seems like a shallow careerist strategy. A good example is the work Robert Morris scrapped together in the eighties when lobby art with meaning became fashionable.
A 1:6 scale replica of exhibition space formerly at 516A 1/2 West 20th Street in New York. Resin, glass, aluminum, steel, wood, and brass with electric lighting. Boxed.
“My childhood has never lost its magic, it has never lost its mystery, and it has never lost its drama.”
-Louise bourgeoise
A lot of sculptors get off on making "toys" or childlike "frames".
People like to play.
You could tie that in to the attraction of dolls, the functionality of Emile Durkheim's totems and so on and so forth.
I'd point it in the direction of iconic vs non iconic, where older (modernist) sculptors seem pointed towards iconic - the younger or "postmodern" sculptors being more intereted in the ways systems propagate, or nostalgic for a time when systems propagated in a linear and forward (modernist) fashion.
THen theres Catelan who is making "iconic" work = simple images against limited backgrounds.
Sharper Image is my pick over the Whitney's lackluster collection. The MOMA has some cool things.
thumbing your nose at authority is especially easy in the art world because the artworld is under the radar. Still, Marizios's pope thing caught a lot of flak. Note that the pope and hitler are not the actual bad boys anymore. Straw men?
Would he thumb his nose at Bush and Blair? Rupert Murdoch? Larry G?
We have this guy over in the east bay that does these great paintings of condi rice, where he makes her a playboy bunny with huge tits and acts like he's in love with her. I think they are brilliant, but you know if they were on the front page of the Chron, he'd be in deep shit and yno Ann Coulter would be all upset.
The whole inversion thing is pretty old - i was trying to find a reference to exhuming the bodies of saints and displaying them upside down during some revolution in Spain I think.
Another instances of desecratiuon/iconoclasm would be taking pot shots at the Sphinx in Egypt, Bamyan in Afghanistan and so forth. Burning people in effigy, burning flags, wearing flags as clothing, displaying the flag upside down...shitting on the Capitol Steps, smashing the big toe of David, releasing cockroaches into the Met....I mean there are plenty ofg incidents, art-intentional or not that are as estheticly pleasing and more powerfull politicly.
If one is to evaluate the work - you could compare it to Duane hanson or Gober as an exercise in blather.
But really the strength of the work lies in the provocation. And as was mentioned, its mostly superficial - straw dogs.
I found this more interesting because of its historical references and because it is made out of bronze.
www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/peter.html - 7k the association of an inverted cross with satansm is pretty recent. The original meaning was humility in relation to St. Peter. Christians in the Middle Ages fought to buried under the doorway to churches so they could be walked on.
I dont know what writers have to say about the work other than Page six in the NYPost:
"The economy in an individualised, wealthy information society needs art and culture to create new ideal values that will become decisive in tomorrow's markets. [...] Strategies hitherto only known within the spere of culture increasingly find their way into the economy, as well largely on account of their emotional symbolic surplus values."
But Marizio isn't really a Marxist, but maybe the millions spent on the work says something about how emotionally attached one gets to tcochkys.
I remember being very emotionally upset uppon losing a plastic cow I had been given to a dirt pile. It hurt.
I miss painting, I miss the flatness. I miss the limited range of possibilities. I miss my place in the audience. I'm not interested in moving around so much. Painter come home.
Dana Schutz is the very definition of safe but I get tired of hearing people diss on her. It's not my taste at all but she actually paints those paintings herself which is rare among people who could crank out tons of product and sell it. Theres a book called "Reagan at Bitburg" about how fascism is marketed as a familiar emblem of evil. The late pope's letter to artists: www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/ letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_23041999_artists_en.html
KJ... I've rolled the canvas and posted it in a plastic tube [to be stretched again at destination]. It worked out well [and fairly cheap]..... but you may mean to send the painting on the frame......
"Serra: I think the great thing about Warhol was his cynical, critical banality of conversing with the media. Warhol’s provocation is lost now and has been replaced by a superficial simulation of banality; that is banality for banality’s sake where everybody’s in on the meta-joke. Only the meta-joke of art about art can become tiresome real quick. Cynicism has been replaced with sentimentality. The problem with a lot of work today is its predictability. Its only allusion is to something we already know; it reframes, or re-references the known over and over again. It can’t possibly give us the same kind of inventive diversity and fulfillment and complex evolution of the formal language of art that invention can provide. I find it interesting that there’s no post-modernism that doesn’t deal with re-representation."
look back at all of the PAINTERS that recieved widespread praise on this site. are they 'safe'? yes, very safe. no "africa, or children with cancer" no "pope in a goofy regan mask" or "black pussy". i dont love catelan, he isnt even one of my favorite sculptors but calling him 'safe' seems a bit unfair given the widespread lack of risktaking that plagues most of the mainstream.
the subversiveness of warhol is that he made GAY / drug / porn movies in a time where you could get thrown in jail and killed for it.. the DaDA of media, i think about his 'screen shots' when ever i am having a bland web cam chat.
"Same thing day after day - tube - work - dinner - work - tube - armchair - TV - sleep - tube - work - how much more can you take? - one in ten go mad - one in five cracks up"
kalm james: Fellini’s “8 ½” is a great movie, as is most of his work. If you want to watch a trear jerker watch La Strada, with a young Anthony Quinn. This film will break your heart.
Also La Dolce Vita,Nights of Cabiria,Juliet of the Spirits, well most anything he has made.
www.bashingdanaschutz.com, this link does not work
The general trend on this site is to bash anything well made or unusual. Artists tend to like things they can make themselves. Collectors tend to like things they can't make themselves. It's true at least this guy has content to criticize but why not Mussolini or even better his granddaughter.
David Salle, Cecily Brown, Matthew Barney, Dana Schutz a long line of artists loser slackers who can't draw without a projector have hated. Stop using your drafting tables for cutting lines.
Chico I didn't mean you in particular. I agree her work is safe. It just seems there is always one person other people pile on. I can think of other equally successful artists who farm everything out to assistants and that seems much worse.
Damien Loeb is my favorite whipping boy. He makes paint by numbers look hard. The movie about him is my favorite movie just behinf the one about Karl Appel, and ahead of the one about Andy Goldsworthy.
Dana Shutz smokes crack if she thinks her work is edgy. Maurizio too. Maurizio is overvalued by about 2 million dollars or so. Thats me and some Marxist sour grapes, but they are my grapes, dig?
I like a little edge - you can cut the saran wrap on it.
I keep looking at sponge bob square pants "cat" -its basicly Garfield but it's not a cat, its an anthropomorphized snail.
i want a projector. Gridding off shit is like doing longdivision without a calculator.
Printing on canvas - Kinkaide soes that.
THey really do look different than the hard way. Still the time you save could be used to post on the internet, branding, watching sponge bob...all sorts of stuff.
Set-up is important. Its like the quiet-loud formula The Pixies used. Not very intellectual, but its good fun. I missed the set-up with Catelan. Went right to the punchline. Unpacks like grandma's hat box.
I think it's fine to use assistants (or various tools) for work where the hand is not an issue but not work the artists pretend to make themselves. I've been really surprised by some of the people who do it and not openly.
I saw the Kinkade booth at a licensing convention. THey had an easel set up for a demonstration. I think its the one where they hand-paint in the lights. Art in the age of mechanical reproduction. I think the stork brings the soul part. Remember to feed your inner stork.
Much like everything else concerning production in the first world, cultural production notwithstanding, there is always the fear that exists in the back of an artisan's head that artisanship is something that will eventually be farmed out, relegated, to some 3rd-world 'help'. The 3rd world as toolshed. Substantiated in art, sometimes, when intent, intellect and will is ranked and priveledged over maual craft and labor.
A kind of manifest destiny for the overeducated. My will. Your cheap sweat. My name. Take it or leave it.
Wherein, there's the virtualization of production, wherein the producer's physical contact with the procuct's manufacture is merely theoretical -- (Process is an untidy mess best kept in the kitchen and away from the table where the relevant ideas and daintily insular jokes flow) -- soon we'll have people chewing and shitting for us.
Kelli, David Salle, Cecily Brown, Matthew Barney, Dana Schutz are 4 very different artist working in different ways.
Do mean they are loser slackers? I'm not into all the work, but are we dissing the success or the work?
Brown seems to work pretty hard, gets good money for the work, 120k a painting or so. Schutz seems to work hard as well, and she must have cash coming out of her ears.
I think she is bit over hyped and the show she had this year at the Rose art museum in the Boston area proved that to me and some local critics.
excerpt:
Which is another way of looking at the work. There is a subtext to this dialogue that focuses on issues of ambition and greed. The art world needs its emerging stars. Now more than ever. The market has exploded.
Just visit the art fairs and you will quickly comprehend that it has little to do with aesthetics and a lot to do with marketing and money. A few years back, the Rose built an enormous, generic, uninspired, white cube of an addition. The trick is to fill it. In that regard this project fits that bill. With a waiting list for works yet to be created the artist is prolific in cranking out epic scaled, museum destined paintings.
It’s a win win all around: For the artist, her dealer, the critics and curators who jump on the bandwagon, and the collectors who find their acquisitions destined for the walls (or basements) of major museums. What’s not to like? But why does it feel like there is something terribly wrong about that scenario? Are we describing the next “Lost Generation?” Or, perhaps, a "Get Lost Generation?"
from Charles Giuliano's review of Dana Schutz at the Rose Art Museum.
Ever hear about the restaurant on the moon? Food's great but no atmosphere.
KinKaide is following in the tradition of detourned paintings (Asger Journ, Banksy)where you take an existin g painting and alter it. In his case he is going from an inert or "souless" painting to a "soul filled" painting.
I dont care if it doesnt work for you, it works for some people.
Aside from all that there is the Multi level marketing aspect of the franchise, which I think everyone should adopt.
"Detournment is a game made possible by the capacity of devaluation," writes Jorn in his study Detourned Painting (May 1959), and he goes on say that all the elements of the cultural past must be "reinvested" or disappear. Detournment is thus first of all a negation of the value of the previous organization of expression. It arises and grows increasingly stronger in the historical period of the decomposition of artistic expression. But at the same time, the attempts to reuse the "detournable bloc" as material for other ensembles express the search for a vaster construction, a new genre of creation at a higher level.
Thomas Kinkade is not art. its kitch trash. It's selling bad ideas to people who don't know any better. You can say this does not matter, but hes on the level of Mcdonalds as far as I am concerned. Selling people fast food art for their living rooms.
He is also a jerk, and he uses religion to get people to by into his medicine show.
Last I read about him was that he was having his own "Mel Gibson" drinking problems, only he pissed on a Disney statue at Disney Land...
Painterdog I listed those artists as people other often slackerish artists like to envy. Dana Schutz seems to be the current person.I've lstened to like 12 (real not blog) conversations of people griping about her. Tedious.
Pissing on a Disney statue(In fact he pissed on a likeness of Winnie the Poo) is an iconoclastic act that only proves tha Kinkaide is as important an artist as Maurizio Catelan.
I have a question- how come all the prodigy artists seem to paint like matisse or picasso? Arent there any genius children who dig Balthus or something?
More people like Barry Manilow than Charlie Parker or Chet Baker, does that make him a better artist? Don't think so.
Zipthwung I think your just saying this to get a rise ourt of people. To set the record straight the SOB(Kinkade) was falling down drunk when he pissed on Pooh bear. That is not a statement, its a just him being a slob.
Who is your favorite child prodigy? Picasso, Mozart.
Kelli sorry I missunderstood the comment. Yeah I'm getting tired of the Dana bashing myself, did you read the review from the link i posted? It sums up of my thoughts on the subject.
Maybe those 12 people should paint more or take up taxidermy.
Schutz is a pretty good painter on some levels and shes young, has some kinks to work out, so what. It's not my cup of tea, but I can see she has talent.
Its not her fault that this is happening. Would anyone in there right mind turn down the opportunities that she is having? I know I would'nt.
This Kinkade story is AWESOME. No-Where Man will you videotape me without my knowledge when I behave this way come fall.No animatronic cartoon creatures to piss on in NY. Well we''ll see about that.
Kinkade is a real piece of work. I read some article on him and hes having all sorts of financial trouble, having to close down his store fronts. He very abusive to his staff, uses the christian angle to sell his yard sale art.
Kinkade is a big fan of norman rockwell - who got a museum show BTW - and so why not Kinkade? Why not? It would be a great break from hearing how great Dana or some other IT paintier is. Like when I go to the MOMA and whoop! there IT is! Or like when some insipid "culture" magazine does an article on whos who and its generally a who? Followed by a why? Then What where and when get drawn out at a dollar a word, am I right? I think they are called "Puff Pieces" and no one gets in a lather except media critics. Its like spam, only I can't delete it.
I like gorgon's take in artnet:
Ever hear of Dana Schutz, Guy Ben-Ner, Wangechi Mutu, Jules de Balincourt, Jen DeNike, Matthew Day Jackson, Adam Helms, Kelley Walker, Carol Bove, Paul Chan? No? Well, they’re "Artists on the Verge of a Breakthrough," otherwise known as "The Ten Most Likely to Succeed from the ‘Greater New York’ Show," according to the Mar. 7, 2005, issue of New York Magazine. Well, they’re still on the verge, and their breakthrough -- to where, exactly? -- is not likely to happen anytime soon. Oh yes, they’ve sold fairly well, so they have made their breakthrough -- into the market. That’s no doubt the important breakthrough these days.
Im a Shaker. Utopia. That sort of thing. Clebration, Disney's planned community caught my eye, but as an investment I was worried that it might become just another middle class slum.
Thomas Kinkade's Hiddenbrooke got lost in translation.
I'm holding out for Martha Stewart's co-branded homes - WoodCreek Reserve in Katy Texas - cuz Texas will be saved by the current administration in the event of world War V (I think we are up to).
My people built their own goddamned houses, except for my parents who bought a 15 year fixer upper. Some people like 20 year ones. The Winchester Mansion is a famous lifetime one. Me n the folks went there. Its pretty fun. They ham it up a bit - I dont know how crazy that lady was, but she had the cash. her taste ran to the victorian though. I like gothic revival a lot - all that cool stonework and gargoyles. Got to take that back from the ren faire dudes and put it to better use than meade cups.
"That evening, I told Joe about the conversation I had with Leon. He was not in harmony with Leon's viewpoint, but we kept that to ourselves. It was at times like this that it would sometimes cross our minds that maybe we, along with many other JW families, took the organizational instructions too seriously. However, despite Leon's different perspective from ours concerning Michael Jackson, one which we then disagreed with, we continued to try to do what we thought God would expect of faithful Jehovah's Witnesses and advance what we thought was "pure worship without defilement of any kind."
No-where I'm joking about the Thomas Kinkade story...public urination, abuse of staff, born-again Christian. Sounds fun. Or maybe sounds like an art Mel Gibson. Please videotape me when I act this way in the Fall. I wasn't dissing on Saltz or you filming him. I like him.
Doesn't this Kinkade person sound like Mel Gibson? Speaking of which why are people so surprised? He made homophobic remarks years ago and hateful people hate. That's what they do.
I love his studio! makes me feel much better about my mess!!! and so many clues to how he worked. He said he didn't use photos... and now there's a book showing references. He said he didn't do preliminary drawings... and now there's a book with examples. Also there's that last work he had started.... original and not formally taught!! and those colors!!
Well Bacon was a notorious drunk, and he had some friends who were junkies everyone in his circle was into the private club thing.
But this was Britain after the war so people felt that they needed to party, and who could blame them after all the crap they put up with from the blitz.
89 comments:
Fascism has been examined so many times in art and in film "using" it seems like a shallow careerist strategy. A good example is the work Robert Morris scrapped together in the eighties when lobby art with meaning became fashionable.
this kind of stuff makes my eyes bleed.
or at least they feel like they want to.
i remembered a funny one, mike smith.
own your own today!!!!
Maurizio Cattelan, Ali Subotnick, and Massimiliano Gioni
A 1:6 scale replica of exhibition space formerly at 516A 1/2 West 20th Street in New York. Resin, glass, aluminum, steel, wood, and brass with electric lighting. Boxed.
Edition of 2,500
Members price $1,080
rat pack
“My childhood has never lost its magic, it has never lost its mystery, and it has never lost its drama.”
-Louise bourgeoise
A lot of sculptors get off on making "toys" or childlike "frames".
People like to play.
You could tie that in to the attraction of dolls, the functionality of Emile Durkheim's totems and so on and so forth.
I'd point it in the direction of iconic vs non iconic, where older (modernist) sculptors seem pointed towards iconic - the younger or "postmodern" sculptors being more intereted in the ways systems propagate, or nostalgic for a time when systems propagated in a linear and forward (modernist) fashion.
THen theres Catelan who is making "iconic" work = simple images against limited backgrounds.
Sharper Image is my pick over the Whitney's lackluster collection. The MOMA has some cool things.
MOSS is retardedly awesome sometimes.
how about these danglies??
Thumbing your nose at authority is pretty easy. Thats what Cattelan is trying to tell us.
Thank you Marizio.
thumbing your nose at authority is especially easy in the art world because the artworld is under the radar. Still, Marizios's pope thing caught a lot of flak. Note that the pope and hitler are not the actual bad boys anymore. Straw men?
Would he thumb his nose at Bush and Blair? Rupert Murdoch? Larry G?
We have this guy over in the east bay that does these great paintings of condi rice, where he makes her a playboy bunny with huge tits and acts like he's in love with her. I think they are brilliant, but you know if they were on the front page of the Chron, he'd be in deep shit and yno Ann Coulter would be all upset.
http://www.infernogallery.com/images/artwork/garrett1.gif
finch's nieghbour. can you really hate on someone for showing there friends?
The whole inversion thing is pretty old - i was trying to find a reference to exhuming the bodies of saints and displaying them upside down during some revolution in Spain I think.
Another instances of desecratiuon/iconoclasm would be taking pot shots at the Sphinx in Egypt, Bamyan in Afghanistan and so forth. Burning people in effigy, burning flags, wearing flags as clothing, displaying the flag upside down...shitting on the Capitol Steps, smashing the big toe of David, releasing cockroaches into the Met....I mean there are plenty ofg incidents, art-intentional or not that are as estheticly pleasing and more powerfull politicly.
If one is to evaluate the work - you could compare it to Duane hanson or Gober as an exercise in blather.
But really the strength of the work lies in the provocation. And as was mentioned, its mostly superficial - straw dogs.
I found this more interesting because of its historical references and because it is made out of bronze.
www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/peter.html - 7k
the association of an inverted cross with satansm is pretty recent. The original meaning was humility in relation to St. Peter. Christians in the Middle Ages fought to buried under the doorway to churches so they could be walked on.
sacred heart
Anarchist bastards!
I dont know what writers have to say about the work other than Page six in the NYPost:
"The economy in an individualised, wealthy information society needs art and culture to create new ideal values that will become decisive in tomorrow's markets. [...] Strategies hitherto only known within the spere of culture increasingly find their way into the economy, as well largely on account of their emotional symbolic surplus values."
But Marizio isn't really a Marxist, but maybe the millions spent on the work says something about how emotionally attached one gets to tcochkys.
I remember being very emotionally upset uppon losing a plastic cow I had been given to a dirt pile.
It hurt.
I miss painting, I miss the flatness. I miss the limited range of possibilities. I miss my place in the audience. I'm not interested in moving around so much. Painter come home.
Dana Schutz is the very definition of safe but I get tired of hearing people diss on her. It's not my taste at all but she actually paints those paintings herself which is rare among people who could crank out tons of product and sell it.
Theres a book called "Reagan at Bitburg" about how fascism is marketed as a familiar emblem of evil.
The late pope's letter to artists:
www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/ letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_23041999_artists_en.html
Pompetus.
How subversive are you when your work is acceptable and shown in the mainstream galleries?
MillerH... I miss the paint too!!
you seek limitations?
limitation could up the challenge? [to disprove the boundaries?]
what do you mean by 'safe'? what isnt safe?
sorry, those questions were for huggins and kelli. put please, youre all welcome to feast.
Dangerous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Bruce
I would post an excerpt but its all too good. i cant pick just one part
Lena Wertmuller's Seven Beauties/ that's how its done/ art about an awful unbearable subject should be awful and unbearable not slick
KJ... I've rolled the canvas and posted it in a plastic tube [to be stretched again at destination]. It worked out well [and fairly cheap]..... but you may mean to send the painting on the frame......
what do you think is going to happen when the paintings hit auction next season?
"Serra: I think the great thing about Warhol was his cynical, critical banality of conversing with the media. Warhol’s provocation is lost now and has been replaced by a superficial simulation of banality; that is banality for banality’s sake where everybody’s in on the meta-joke. Only the meta-joke of art about art can become tiresome real quick. Cynicism has been replaced with sentimentality. The problem with a lot of work today is its predictability. Its only allusion is to something we already know; it reframes, or re-references the known over and over again. It can’t possibly give us the same kind of inventive diversity and fulfillment and complex evolution of the formal language of art that invention can provide. I find it interesting that there’s no post-modernism that doesn’t deal with re-representation."
what does he mean by re-representation?
look back at all of the PAINTERS that recieved widespread praise on this site. are they 'safe'? yes, very safe. no "africa, or children with cancer" no "pope in a goofy regan mask" or "black pussy".
i dont love catelan, he isnt even one of my favorite sculptors but calling him 'safe' seems a bit unfair given the widespread lack of risktaking that plagues most of the mainstream.
the subversiveness of warhol is that he made GAY / drug / porn movies in a time where you could get thrown in jail and killed for it.. the DaDA of media, i think about his 'screen shots' when ever i am having a bland web cam chat.
"Same thing day after day - tube - work - dinner - work - tube - armchair - TV - sleep - tube - work - how much more can you take? - one in ten go mad - one in five cracks up"
War for Sale!
kalm james:
Fellini’s “8 ½” is a great movie, as is most of his work. If you want to watch a trear jerker watch La Strada, with a young Anthony Quinn. This film will break your heart.
Also La Dolce Vita,Nights of Cabiria,Juliet of the Spirits, well most anything he has made.
www.bashingdanaschutz.com, this link does not work
Happy Sunday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqiMfPe6U7g
The general trend on this site is to bash anything well made or unusual. Artists tend to like things they can make themselves. Collectors tend to like things they can't make themselves. It's true at least this guy has content to criticize but why not Mussolini or even better his granddaughter.
the jam...
you forget what a good band they had been.
David Salle, Cecily Brown, Matthew Barney, Dana Schutz a long line of artists loser slackers who can't draw without a projector have hated. Stop using your drafting tables for cutting lines.
ah fuck it flip the boat, it is about to flip itself, - im tellin u a day job is not that bad.
kelli...seems drawing is irrelevant, artschools don't teach it ?
Chico I didn't mean you in particular. I agree her work is safe. It just seems there is always one person other people pile on. I can think of other equally successful artists who farm everything out to assistants and that seems much worse.
Damien Loeb is my favorite whipping boy. He makes paint by numbers look hard. The movie about him is my favorite movie just behinf the one about Karl Appel, and ahead of the one about Andy Goldsworthy.
Dana Shutz smokes crack if she thinks her work is edgy. Maurizio too. Maurizio is overvalued by about 2 million dollars or so. Thats me and some Marxist sour grapes, but they are my grapes, dig?
I like a little edge - you can cut the saran wrap on it.
I keep looking at sponge bob square pants "cat" -its basicly Garfield but it's not a cat, its an anthropomorphized snail.
i want a projector. Gridding off shit is like doing longdivision without a calculator.
Printing on canvas - Kinkaide soes that.
THey really do look different than the hard way. Still the time you save could be used to post on the internet, branding, watching sponge bob...all sorts of stuff.
Dimidium facti qui coepit habet: sapere aude
Set-up is important. Its like the quiet-loud formula The Pixies used. Not very intellectual, but its good fun. I missed the set-up with Catelan. Went right to the punchline. Unpacks like grandma's hat box.
i have a sweet projector, and classic w-burg loft. guess i sold out
.
I think it's fine to use assistants (or various tools) for work where the hand is not an issue but not work the artists pretend to make themselves. I've been really surprised by some of the people who do it and not openly.
I saw the Kinkade booth at a licensing convention. THey had an easel set up for a demonstration. I think its the one where they hand-paint in the lights. Art in the age of mechanical reproduction. I think the stork brings the soul part. Remember to feed your inner stork.
I thought the stork brought babies?
chico what's the most "kickass" painting of all time?
thoth
Much like everything else concerning production in the first world, cultural production notwithstanding, there is always the fear that exists in the back of an artisan's head that artisanship is something that will eventually be farmed out, relegated, to some 3rd-world 'help'. The 3rd world as toolshed. Substantiated in art, sometimes, when intent, intellect and will is ranked and priveledged over maual craft and labor.
A kind of manifest destiny for the overeducated.
My will. Your cheap sweat. My name. Take it or leave it.
Wherein, there's the virtualization of production, wherein the producer's physical contact with the procuct's manufacture is merely theoretical -- (Process is an untidy mess best kept in the kitchen and away from the table where the relevant ideas and daintily insular jokes flow) -- soon we'll have people chewing and shitting for us.
Tidyness. The apex of civilization.
Kelli,
David Salle, Cecily Brown, Matthew Barney, Dana Schutz are 4 very different artist working in different ways.
Do mean they are loser slackers?
I'm not into all the work, but are we dissing the success or the work?
Brown seems to work pretty hard, gets good money for the work, 120k a painting or so. Schutz seems to work hard as well, and she must have cash coming out of her ears.
I think she is bit over hyped and the show she had this year at the Rose art museum in the Boston area proved that to me and some local critics.
excerpt:
Which is another way of looking at the work. There is a subtext to this dialogue that focuses on issues of ambition and greed. The art world needs its emerging stars. Now more than ever. The market has exploded.
Just visit the art fairs and you will quickly comprehend that it has little to do with aesthetics and a lot to do with marketing and money. A few years back, the Rose built an enormous, generic, uninspired, white cube of an addition. The trick is to fill it. In that regard this project fits that bill. With a waiting list for works yet to be created the artist is prolific in cranking out epic scaled, museum destined paintings.
It’s a win win all around: For the artist, her dealer, the critics and curators who jump on the bandwagon, and the collectors who find their acquisitions destined for the walls (or basements) of major museums. What’s not to like? But why does it feel like there is something terribly wrong about that scenario? Are we describing the next “Lost Generation?” Or, perhaps, a "Get Lost Generation?"
from Charles Giuliano's review of Dana Schutz at the Rose Art Museum.
www.maverick-arts.com/cgi-bin/MAVERICK?action=article&issue=237
Thomas Kinkaide! you have to be kidding, right? He's a nut case, a hypocritical egomaniacal merchent of CRAP.
Jerry Saltz on Maurizio
I watched the video of Mr.Saltz, did he know he was being tapped?
I don't really buy his art speak on this guy.
Its interesting and he sounds smart but it does not make me rethink Cattelan's work in a better light.
It does noting for me at all and the idea that people want to pick up the pope statue is like a cute one-line joke.
Ever hear about the restaurant on the moon? Food's great but no atmosphere.
KinKaide is following in the tradition of detourned paintings (Asger Journ, Banksy)where you take an existin g painting and alter it. In his case he is going from an inert or "souless" painting to a "soul filled" painting.
I dont care if it doesnt work for you, it works for some people.
Aside from all that there is the Multi level marketing aspect of the franchise, which I think everyone should adopt.
"Detournment is a game made possible by the capacity of devaluation," writes Jorn in his study Detourned Painting (May 1959), and he goes on say that all the elements of the cultural past must be "reinvested" or disappear. Detournment is thus first of all a negation of the value of the previous organization of expression. It arises and grows increasingly stronger in the historical period of the decomposition of artistic expression. But at the same time, the attempts to reuse the "detournable bloc" as material for other ensembles express the search for a vaster construction, a new genre of creation at a higher level.
your joking right?
Thomas Kinkade is not art. its kitch trash. It's selling bad ideas to people who don't know any better. You can say this does not matter, but hes on the level of Mcdonalds as far as I am concerned. Selling people fast food art for their living rooms.
He is also a jerk, and he uses religion to get people to by into his medicine show.
Last I read about him was that he was having his own "Mel Gibson" drinking problems, only he pissed on a Disney statue at Disney Land...
Painterdog I listed those artists as people other often slackerish artists like to envy. Dana Schutz seems to be the current person.I've lstened to like 12 (real not blog) conversations of people griping about her. Tedious.
Pissing on a Disney statue(In fact he pissed on a likeness of Winnie the Poo) is an iconoclastic act that only proves tha Kinkaide is as important an artist as Maurizio Catelan.
More people like Kinkade than Dana Schutz.
I have a question- how come all the prodigy artists seem to paint like matisse or picasso? Arent there any genius children who dig Balthus or something?
akianne
vs
Marla
Who is your favorite child prodigy?
kinda early vito acconci style, i have many many tapes of the Artworld. Mr.Saltz on occasion may have noticed the camera. maybe not.
More people like Barry Manilow than Charlie Parker or Chet Baker, does that make him a better artist?
Don't think so.
Zipthwung I think your just saying this to get a rise ourt of people. To set the record straight the SOB(Kinkade) was falling down drunk when he pissed on Pooh bear. That is not a statement, its a just him being a slob.
Who is your favorite child prodigy?
Picasso, Mozart.
Kelli sorry I missunderstood the comment.
Yeah I'm getting tired of the Dana bashing myself, did you read the review from the link i posted? It sums up of my thoughts on the subject.
Maybe those 12 people should paint more or take up taxidermy.
Schutz is a pretty good painter on some levels and shes young, has some kinks to work out, so what. It's not my cup of tea, but I can see she has talent.
Its not her fault that this is happening. Would anyone in there right mind turn down the opportunities that she is having?
I know I would'nt.
This Kinkade story is AWESOME. No-Where Man will you videotape me without my knowledge when I behave this way come fall.No animatronic cartoon creatures to piss on in NY. Well we''ll see about that.
Kinkade is a real piece of work.
I read some article on him and hes having all sorts of financial trouble, having to close down his store fronts. He very abusive to his staff, uses the christian angle to sell his yard sale art.
He's the Jerry Lewis of the art world.
hmmmm... who's Dean Martin?
I will work this angry Christian angle in too. So excited.
Kinkade is a big fan of norman rockwell - who got a museum show BTW - and so why not Kinkade? Why not? It would be a great break from hearing how great Dana or some other IT paintier is. Like when I go to the MOMA and whoop! there IT is! Or like when some insipid "culture" magazine does an article on whos who and its generally a who? Followed by a why? Then What where and when get drawn out at a dollar a word, am I right? I think they are called "Puff Pieces" and no one gets in a lather except media critics. Its like spam, only I can't delete it.
I like gorgon's take in artnet:
Ever hear of Dana Schutz, Guy Ben-Ner, Wangechi Mutu, Jules de Balincourt, Jen DeNike, Matthew Day Jackson, Adam Helms, Kelley Walker, Carol Bove, Paul Chan? No? Well, they’re "Artists on the Verge of a Breakthrough," otherwise known as "The Ten Most Likely to Succeed from the ‘Greater New York’ Show," according to the Mar. 7, 2005, issue of New York Magazine. Well, they’re still on the verge, and their breakthrough -- to where, exactly? -- is not likely to happen anytime soon. Oh yes, they’ve sold fairly well, so they have made their breakthrough -- into the market. That’s no doubt the important breakthrough these days.
here
zipthwung,zipthwung,
If you don't understand why his work bad, than I don't know what to say.
Just because Kinkade likes Norman Rockwell does not mean a thing.
Rockwell was an illustrator, and he would the first to say that.
Like I said I don't care for Schutz's work to much or for anyone in Feuer's gallery for that matter.
But that's not the point.I get the feeling that your just trying to wind people up.
Im a Shaker. Utopia. That sort of thing. Clebration, Disney's planned community caught my eye, but as an investment I was worried that it might become just another middle class slum.
Thomas Kinkade's Hiddenbrooke got lost in translation.
I'm holding out for Martha Stewart's co-branded homes - WoodCreek Reserve in Katy Texas - cuz Texas will be saved by the current administration in the event of world War V (I think we are up to).
Schutz-kitch. If you dont think so then you are definitely not invited to the ressurection.
Shutzkitch.
I'm jewish I'm not invited anyway.
you good ol' boys and girlz have a good time at the "ressurection"
cause it will be full of boring people...
just what we need more communities planed around golf courses.
You know they should build low income housing on every f'n glof course in this country.
My people built their own goddamned houses, except for my parents who bought a 15 year fixer upper. Some people like 20 year ones. The Winchester Mansion is a famous lifetime one. Me n the folks went there. Its pretty fun. They ham it up a bit - I dont know how crazy that lady was, but she had the cash. her taste ran to the victorian though. I like gothic revival a lot - all that cool stonework and gargoyles. Got to take that back from the ren faire dudes and put it to better use than meade cups.
Watchtower - talk about a planned community!
They produce their own books Guttenberg style!
Guttentag's a coming!
"Wrapping our magazines
This will soon be obsolete, since we will not have subscriptions any longer"
here
I think that means that soon they will have metadata.
heres the center of the hive:
here
Sarah is the key.
"That evening, I told Joe about the conversation I had with Leon. He was not in harmony with Leon's viewpoint, but we kept that to ourselves. It was at times like this that it would sometimes cross our minds that maybe we, along with many other JW families, took the organizational instructions too seriously. However, despite Leon's different perspective from ours concerning Michael Jackson, one which we then disagreed with, we continued to try to do what we thought God would expect of faithful Jehovah's Witnesses and advance what we thought was "pure worship without defilement of any kind."
Contributed by Barbara Anderson
Thank you, barbara.
here
AWESOME!
kelli,
? acting this way ? he is a public figure lecturing, on his chosen subject that happens to relate to this thread. i think it is a complement.
No-where I'm joking about the Thomas Kinkade story...public urination, abuse of staff, born-again Christian. Sounds fun. Or maybe sounds like an art Mel Gibson. Please videotape me when I act this way in the Fall.
I wasn't dissing on Saltz or you filming him. I like him.
sorry kelli will do, guess i am a bit defensive as a certain dealer separated us from one, you just never know how people react to such things.
Doesn't this Kinkade person sound like Mel Gibson? Speaking of which why are people so surprised? He made homophobic remarks years ago and hateful people hate. That's what they do.
chico.. I totally agree with you. It's the end product first ... then it's intesting to look at process.
When I first saw Francis Bacon paintings... I felt a huge gut reaction [negative and positive combined!!] To me, that's a deifinition of "kickass"
Francis Bacon is, was a really good painter, and he was original.
Ever see pictures of his studio?
Man that is a fascinating room.
I love his studio! makes me feel much better about my mess!!! and so many clues to how he worked. He said he didn't use photos... and now there's a book showing references. He said he didn't do preliminary drawings... and now there's a book with examples. Also there's that last work he had started.... original and not formally taught!! and those colors!!
He and Lucian Freud used to go out drinking all night eat oysters then go back to their studios and paint to they dropped.
Real bohemians.
ah that's my problem... vegetarian, teetotaller!!!
But maybe there's something in midnight painting.... different light!! and silence.....
Well Bacon was a notorious drunk, and he had some friends who were junkies everyone in his circle was into the private club thing.
But this was Britain after the war so people felt that they needed to party, and who could blame them after all the crap they put up with from the blitz.
increible!!!!!!!!!
buenisimo!!
http://pinturaseleonorafilippi.blogspot.com/
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