Really drawing is irrelevant? How so? I like drawings and seek them out in galleries and museums. Seems to me they have an aesthetic and commercial value that at times are of equal stature to painting. Is oil on paper irrelivant too? what about Walter De maria's Mile long desert drawing, David hammons basketball drawings or Janine Antoni's To Draw a Line and other conceptual drawing projects? Kara Walkers work is largely based on her drawing practice, so is mine.
I know you proly said that Triple Diesel to provoke a reaction so here I am, biting.
I have seen his work, its very decroative, detailed and it reminds me a lot of rapidograph drawing that was kind of popular in the 70's in high school art classes. He's better than that but the work does seem to move in that direction.
Greg Irons has better line weight, and I like his coloring books better. the BLACK PANTHER COLORING BOOK looks cool. Some pages are better than others.
Beardsley wasnt just better because he was cutting edge in his day.
AB could draw better--that is, he knew how to use line to create space. Look at the line weight in a Beardsley and also the pos/neg space. He was a master of both. This guy doesn't usilize either particularly. Maybe he doesnt want to. Some of the other stuff on the G&G website is a bit better. The big abstractions are kinda cool.
Gotta show that Black Panther book to my daughter. She would love it. She wrote a paper this year called "John Brown , Activist". Got an A, too. She's a natural.
I was thinking about "trip books" - I had one in high school - but instead of drugs it was the English teacher's lecture. I could draw all class. RAD! Math class was taken up writing notes. No thinking aloud.
this is worse - academic style, no love. No line weight. Still, there's some proficiency in the cross hatching. Just serviceable.
I spent a lot of time trying to learn to draw with a pen.
The brush has more to it. Why not use one though? Is it that hard? I dont think raymond pettibon is all that good in comparison to the masters. I guess he's more admired for the "expressive" nature of his brushwork. Well how many years has it been? I say hes more interested in the narrative/conceptual part than the picture - so I guess he's conceptual.
The person who made the remark about drawing just said art schools don't teach it so maybe they just went to a conceptual or liberal arts program. I took anatomy and perspectival drawing but have forgotton well...math.
Hi TD, oops sorry, I'm not keeping up with all the PainterNYC posts. Love that Aubrey Beardsley, he was so delightfully perverse and elegant. I was just looking at his body of work on the Guild & Greyshkul website, not sure I get what he's doing between the abstraction and figuration. I guess the link is decoration?
I went to MICA for undergrad and anatomy was 8 hours with a model twice a week, 8 hours of homework and a working model of a hand for the final. Drawing 1 was freehanding circles 3 months until you could draw a perfect one.
Kids...with their rock and roll and rapidographs...dip, dip I say. The problem is this... everyone is mildly sophisticated these days they know enough, are around enough, have a enough of a sensibility to pick out the proper clothing...they in some way also pick out the right art...why learn a way to draw when you can pick out something...the artist as a consumer/stylist. I actually like this in someway...I'm curious...I just find it terribly frustrating. With age comes habit, comes one's inevitableness, one's timeline, one's history, quirks, failures, successes, a bit of drama..humanity. Struggle is interesting only if it's real...we live in a culture that no longer appreciates a good struggle...MFA...show... retro at 35..once your public, your in...you work inevitably in relation to that situation...I miss that the interesting, talented 23 year olds of the world no longer have a time to simmer...this world needs more time to simmer. I like the drawing quite a bit.
this would make a beautiful silkscreen. there is nothing here (at least in this jpeg) that points to it 'necessarily' being a drawing, or for it being a work on paper for that matter. there is something so damn imediate about drawing, that is why it appeals to many, and me. ok, so it is appealing...now what? examine what makes it special and unique and use it. this is what it seems caivano is failing to do, he is not taking advantage. it seems if he is trying the 'wow' approach. this shit is tight and ill say 'wow' but damn its dry.
Is this because your lazy and can't be bothered to try to learn to draw?
I wont get into all the reasons one should learn to draw at least a little, but its about getting used to dealing with designing or creating in 2D spcace.
You know that movie art school confidential, the scene when they are doing drawing crits of self portraits, and the one of the girl which is real bad as a drawing on any level, and they pounce on the guy who did a pretty good drawing, well that kind of sums up why one should learn or at least try ot have some ability.
The best part of figure drawing is nakedness...what does one do in the face of nakedness...draw, draw, draw...god bless the artifice...nakedness somehow determines an analysis..talk about distance...and artifice. Art/artiface figure that.
Yes Kelli ...... that was the point! Art schools don't seem to value drawing enough! It's fundamental! ..... but.. from students I speak to now..... it's seen as a sideline.
There are any number of good reasons to draw, to look at drawing--good drawing. Good drawing, in a contemporary sense, would for me spell, like a previous post suggests, understanding how our three dimesional world, the one we call real, works in a two dimensional space--how the many ways this can be acheived. If would also be a shame to restrict our interpretation to the three as to how the two can come about: As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we.
"As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we."
Does anyone understand this?
Or am should I just put my hands together and bow and say yes master...
nothing wrong with drawing, i wish more people drew their subjects rather than projecting and tracing, what's the fun in that.. this guy who i knew felt it was one more skill that would take too much time.. quickest route to success i guess.. this vocab is limited, which i'm sure the artist is aware, hopefully - ever see a matisse drawing, then have you ever seen the guy who tried to pass off his line drawings as matisses.. Mr. m's were not flat.. drawing is hard and this one bores the life out of me..
Late in on the discussion but I'm curious about what was mentioned about perfect circles, just curious to actually see if anyone can produce 'perfect circles' on cue.
42 comments:
Drawing is irrelevant?
probably but these are alright.
This guy reminds me of the sixties poster art in some way and undergroound comics.
Really drawing is irrelevant? How so? I like drawings and seek them out in galleries and museums. Seems to me they have an aesthetic and commercial value that at times are of equal stature to painting. Is oil on paper irrelivant too? what about Walter De maria's Mile long desert drawing, David hammons basketball drawings or Janine Antoni's To Draw a Line and other conceptual drawing projects? Kara Walkers work is largely based on her drawing practice, so is mine.
I know you proly said that Triple Diesel to provoke a reaction so here I am, biting.
Thanks, corny. Actually, we were quoting someone from the weekend's comments about Maurizio Cattelan. We forgot to use quotations, however. (Our bad!)
I love this artist work.
Where does he show now?
I saw his show at 31Grand several years ago.
Guild & Greyshkul
http://www.guildgreyshkul.com/
Is that a good drawing? It looks flat and bland to me. This is so much better for a decorative stylee...
http://home.student.uva.nl/victoria.anastasyadis/Beardsley.jpg
I have seen his work, its very decroative, detailed and it reminds me a lot of rapidograph drawing that was kind of popular in the 70's in high school art classes. He's better than that but the work does seem to move in that direction.
I'm on the fence with this.
Drawings are so hard to see online. Nothing jpegs worse than a drawing. So maybe its better for real
Yes that's true, his work is kind of like Beardsley's in style.
Beardley was much better though.
Greg Irons has better line weight, and I like his coloring books better.
the BLACK PANTHER COLORING BOOK looks cool. Some pages are better than others.
class project anyone?
we could be situationists just like David Rees
and finally:
Erte
no and finally:
ERTE!
no, wait, how about:
NAGEL!
Beardsley wasnt just better because he was cutting edge in his day.
AB could draw better--that is, he knew how to use line to create space. Look at the line weight in a Beardsley and also the pos/neg space. He was a master of both. This guy doesn't usilize either particularly. Maybe he doesnt want to. Some of the other stuff on the G&G website is a bit better. The big abstractions are kinda cool.
Gotta show that Black Panther book to my daughter. She would love it. She wrote a paper this year called "John Brown , Activist". Got an A, too. She's a natural.
The other thing is I don't know what Ernesto Caivano uses to draw with, but Beardsley used nibs, and india ink.
Also his work had so much eroticism going on.
I like Tony Millionaire,R. Crumb, and Kim Dietch for ink drawing.
manage a team!
I was thinking about "trip books" - I had one in high school - but instead of drugs it was the English teacher's lecture. I could draw all class. RAD! Math class was taken up writing notes. No thinking aloud.
this is worse - academic style, no love. No line weight. Still, there's some proficiency in the cross hatching. Just serviceable.
I spent a lot of time trying to learn to draw with a pen.
The brush has more to it. Why not use one though? Is it that hard? I dont think raymond pettibon is all that good in comparison to the masters. I guess he's more admired for the "expressive" nature of his brushwork. Well how many years has it been? I say hes more interested in the narrative/conceptual part than the picture - so I guess he's conceptual.
The person who made the remark about drawing just said art schools don't teach it so maybe they just went to a conceptual or liberal arts program. I took anatomy and perspectival drawing but have forgotton well...math.
Hi TD, oops sorry, I'm not keeping up with all the PainterNYC posts.
Love that Aubrey Beardsley, he was so delightfully perverse and elegant. I was just looking at his body of work on the Guild & Greyshkul website, not sure I get what he's doing between the abstraction and figuration. I guess the link is decoration?
I went to MICA for undergrad and anatomy was 8 hours with a model twice a week, 8 hours of homework and a working model of a hand for the final. Drawing 1 was freehanding circles 3 months until you could draw a perfect one.
I heard drawing circles is a sign of madness. Figure drawing class is boring. Live sex acts would be better.
I filled an entire 8 1/2 by 11" piece of paper with "perfect" circles when I was three.
My mom says it like it was important. I like that.
how can you critique someones fantasy?
Lets the games begin.
Pretty sure they teach drawing at the cooper union but maybe Columbia squoze it out of him.
I know this is an elliptical one liner but you get it right?
A fantasy just has to be engaging. If not the critique is--goodbye.
Kids...with their rock and roll and rapidographs...dip, dip I say. The problem is this... everyone is mildly sophisticated these days they know enough, are around enough, have a enough of a sensibility to pick out the proper clothing...they in some way also pick out the right art...why learn a way to draw when you can pick out something...the artist as a consumer/stylist. I actually like this in someway...I'm curious...I just find it terribly frustrating. With age comes habit, comes one's inevitableness, one's timeline, one's history, quirks, failures, successes, a bit of drama..humanity. Struggle is interesting only if it's real...we live in a culture that no longer appreciates a good struggle...MFA...show... retro at 35..once your public, your in...you work inevitably in relation to that situation...I miss that the interesting, talented 23 year olds of the world no longer have a time to simmer...this world needs more time to simmer. I like the drawing quite a bit.
this would make a beautiful silkscreen. there is nothing here (at least in this jpeg) that points to it 'necessarily' being a drawing, or for it being a work on paper for that matter.
there is something so damn imediate about drawing, that is why it appeals to many, and me. ok, so it is appealing...now what? examine what makes it special and unique and use it. this is what it seems caivano is failing to do, he is not taking advantage. it seems if he is trying the 'wow' approach. this shit is tight and ill say 'wow' but damn its dry.
jack Barth
likes mimetic and linguistic systems, as
well as
Central Park.
And now a word from our sponsor:
whats the frequency?
The Whitney Bi is irrelevant?
"Figure drawing class is boring."
Now that says a lot.
Is this because your lazy and can't be bothered to try to learn to draw?
I wont get into all the reasons one should learn to draw at least a little, but its about getting used to dealing with designing or creating in 2D spcace.
You know that movie art school confidential, the scene when they are doing drawing crits of self portraits, and the one of the girl which is real bad as a drawing on any level, and they pounce on the guy who did a pretty good drawing, well that kind of sums up why one should learn or at least try ot have some ability.
drawing lays open sensibility..it's there..no excuses...signatures tell a truth... ability is understanding meets gift. Matisse ink drawing...de Kooning a beast...Warhol ridiculously good.
The best part of figure drawing is nakedness...what does one do in the face of nakedness...draw, draw, draw...god bless the artifice...nakedness somehow determines an analysis..talk about distance...and artifice. Art/artiface figure that.
How about the scene where Theseus cutts off the legs of Procrustes on his short bed? What if Procrustes had been short?
I think Max Minghella is supposed to be an anti-hero, despite his draughtsmanship. Just a thought.
Also - some people claim that movie was cynical, like that's a bad thing.
yea, didnt they see bad santa?
turn in your toothbrush, superstar.
Yes Kelli ...... that was the point! Art schools don't seem to value drawing enough! It's fundamental! ..... but.. from students I speak to now..... it's seen as a sideline.
"Also - some people claim that movie was cynical, like that's a bad thing."
nothing wrong with a good does cynicism now and again.
There are any number of good reasons to draw, to look at drawing--good drawing. Good drawing, in a contemporary sense, would for me spell, like a previous post suggests, understanding how our three dimesional world, the one we call real, works in a two dimensional space--how the many ways this can be acheived. If would also be a shame to restrict our interpretation to the three as to how the two can come about: As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we.
Well, summer talk!
"As also I would suggest not to adhere to the theory that the two is less than the three, or that the three is the tree that reaches and represents best through we."
Does anyone understand this?
Or am should I just put my hands together and bow and say yes master...
Come on PD I have a two foot role to play!
Besides it does make sense when you get rid of the stupid rimes.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm ironic.
or uh, the zen of nonbelieving.
nothing wrong with drawing, i wish more people drew their subjects rather than projecting and tracing, what's the fun in that.. this guy who i knew felt it was one more skill that would take too much time.. quickest route to success i guess..
this vocab is limited, which i'm sure the artist is aware, hopefully -
ever see a matisse drawing, then have you ever seen the guy who tried to pass off his line drawings as matisses.. Mr. m's were not flat.. drawing is hard and this one bores the life out of me..
Brent we're stiil waiting on your top 5 contemp painters.
I think in all best interest, cooky, tell the we not to wait!
Late in on the discussion but I'm curious about what was mentioned about perfect circles, just curious to actually see if anyone can produce 'perfect circles' on cue.
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