i have i seem to remember flat with a low gloss, they had all kinds of graffiti and illustration nods but came off more like an old master, but it was a long time ago, on some there are heads of kids on poles. i recall thinking it is what my hood will look like in the aftermath of the apocalypse.
i like his paintings, but i've sensed the hates for him by the billyburg hipster crowd. why? i dunno. i thought the show at AR was very excellent. nothing like it anywhere else. kind of anal, but super accomplished and original, at least to me.
u no this shit gets the hate cuz of juxtapoze sensibility type stuff regardless of where nigel is actually coming from - hes a young artist with all the influences of the generation - and it shows, which is good.
take away the narrative aspects of the graphic novel, the moovie, play, separate the characters from the backgrounds and you have the "scene" or "landscape".
The landscape is then the "mise en scene", as with the last painting.
I argue that the lack, or marginalization of figure is key to the "sophistication" of this painting.
Another signifier of sophistication is the horizontality of the composition.
im sure some kids would think this stuff is pretty cool, My mom would like this stuff too.. people that know nothing of the history.... she would say oh my god that is beautiful, look at that light, look at that rainbow... why don't you paint something like that or you should try just one at least.
people that say mfa is a waste of time probably didn't get an mfa.. was undergrad in art a waste of time too? I've heard that as well.. How about ever picking up a brush in the first place? what a waste of time that was... everything is a waste of time that distracts one from breathing..
the $$ thing... I know someone that is doing their mfa at yale... got a full grant/scholarship for first semestar... they had to pay 2nd year in full and 1 year is something like 30 grand i think
How many artists that you like....have the self taught OR qualified... behind them? MFA etc. will give you a way of thinking.... but is that what you want? or will you then have to unlearn all that....
i am the only person on this whole board who thinks "cost" is a factor in education for the girth of the population ? - (if not just the cost of time to invest) or do we operate here like in school where talking about busness is a faux pas? - Artworld is set up for the privy club - which accounts for the high water mark in the gallerys right now? **cough* don't ask don't tell?
I have an MFA. What I mean is a lot of people buy into this whole thing. To many people want to be artist. Only 1% to 2% from any given program are doing art 5 years after they graduate. I'm just saying think real hard before you sign up for what is becoming a very expensive education.
The PHD is for teaching, what else would it be for? Why on earth would you do this? Grow up and kick the school habit and join the real world.
In this country we don't have a PHD in fine art, only art history and conservation, art therapy.
If the program is the right fit for a student, they can advance their art in one semester what it would take in 5 years on their own. You have round the clock feed back and if it's good and from good people you'll always be happy you went through with it.
What school did you go to? I have never heard of this, I went to a very good state school and this never happened. I know people who went to Yale, and BU, this does not happen.
You have crit days and then your supposed to be working. The painters in my program for the most part kept to themselves. Some of us talked about our and most where pretty stand offish.
As for the professors they where only in school 2 or 3 days a week and had other commitments, so this gain 5 years of growth thing, wtf are you talking about. There was no round the clock feedback. If you called up a professor at home it had better been about something urgent, like your studio burnt down and all your work was destroyed.
I wont talk about what kind of crap went on at BU or Yale but if you went to those schools you know.
Spending 120k on an art education is not the wisest thing to do.
I saw a lot of very untalented people(in undergrad) being lead along by the nose by professors who where told to keep these students in for their money. How do I know this, I worked in administration as part of my work study grant and over heard this very conversation.
Poppy you sound like your about 22 or 24 years old.
That's ok but as you move on through and get some distance with your education years you will see that it was very small time and that you learn more from years of doing your work.
Hey what grad school did Basquiat and Keith Haring go to?
Basquiat trained as a kid at the Brooklyn Museum but got his real "education" in the factory, Keith Haring dropped out of SVA but you can still see his style in the school and visa. versa, - he got his real education at Studio 64... much like my undergrad education the school of Disco school of Hard Knocks.
However that is the opposite of nyc now back then you could skip out of your loans and rent was cheap (amid the city was alot "tougher")
Do you need an anime club? A student union? God? Anyone?
Rochester Institute of Technology Cal Tech
There's a free electronics school in the basement of a chuirch in the Bronx. If you are a fellon you might not be allowed to attend, and theres no degree. But you do learn electronics.
school is nessiary to find peers have time to focus on work, get internships but mostly to figure out what your rebeling against. well for me.
i am sick of the "look of american mfa program mainstream" which comes off as undisplaced unskilled sholder rubing i have to agree with painterdog most of it is a vanity project.
I was about ten years older than my peers in grad school(30's). I learnt nothing(well I learnt a lot about post-modernism)and how to be political, the professors where there 2 days a week and we had access for one day which you had to sign up for.
We had a group crits once a month with a guest "artist" who was usally a friend of one of the profs, and it was and ego fest for them. After they would all go out and get drunk in the local bar with their favorite students and have a good ol time.
I learnt more about painting and print making at the Art Students League than at any other school, and they do not offer any degrees.
To be honest it seems to me that this a very american thing, thinking that one needs so much hand holding to be creative.( i know I will get a lot of flack for this comment but I think its true)
In Britian your more on your own in Grad school and most don't go, they do their under grad and they make or they don't.
The trolling thing should be stopped. Its desructive to the students and the learning process. You watch you will be seeing a host of Dana Schutz clones in the next few years coming out of Yale, Colombia...
no biting please,, paintdog totally aware of all arguments for and against school etc..... Your earlier comment rubbed me a bit like ... screw the man, man ..education is for wankers dude! when i first enrolled in undergrad I would end up at parties with guys that would say that stuff.. what are you doing in school loser? just make art dude! anyways i plan on continuing doing what i'm doing regardless of continued school or not..as for the vanity fest and shoulder rubbing.. that is pretty hard to do on the east coast of canada.. It is basically just work your ass off minus the shmooze time. teachers never played you for your $$ either.. if you sucked you knew about it pretty quick. I apologize for sounding so young painter dog - any suggestions?
me 2. I have read several conversations just liek this one, its pretty ubiquitous, people like to discuss it, I guess, I know I do, but where does that get you? Take over the system or don't. If you are, do it and then tell me what you did, and I'll be impressed. Wow, you did it. Good job soldier!
Columbia needs to get beeter talent - my point with RIT vs. MIT or CalTech - if you can go to MIT do you think you would? ANd if Columbia is committed to talent, dont you think they would recruit the best and brightest?
And who are the best and brightest? And where do they go, a long time passing?
poppy your not getting any younger. in a few years, you'll be the dinosaur. Bitter, me bitter...
No I just hate the BS.
I have nothing against going to art school I just think to many people stsy to long or go on to grad school for the wrong reasons, like they son't know what else to do.
pdog nothing wrong with feeling that way of course it is life and many people will do things for the wrong reasons. when i graduated, many many friends and acquaintances were tripping over each others dicks trying to get into the best grad schools... it was a funny race to watch. it was also a secret, no i won't tell you if or where i'm applying.. you might try to go there. alot of insecurities about the whole deal. and you are absolutely right, very few will be at this mess in a few years. i am definatley amazed at the so called amount of peeps thinking they will get into a wicked school and become an artstar.. Isn't the lottery more likely? Maybe i am naive
Painter , my experience of art education was quite similar..... teachers with very little to say and a huge interest in the pub! Feedback is vital but there are other ways to get it.... friends, exhibiton feedback, short courses with artists you respect! The piece of paper with the qualification is of huge interest to the Galleries....as a marketing tool!!
it's hard but possible, i moved 2 nyc with nothing and maintain a 'studio', supplies, (for me thats electric cable tv internet video projector laptop gas) living space and still make it to almost everything in the city, & work on my Art daily, as well as staying up to date with student, hospital loans you have to be a bit of a hussler & hussy. its been just over 4 years right now and i almost everyone i knew 4 years ago laughed about how i wasn't going to make it a day after school.
poppy, your in a common wealth country there is a huge differance - i know i took some film classes in Tornoto between degrees... that was my original point.
- do you think this Artist being able to spend so much time in school lends to the over all end all effect? has anyone else seen them in person?
nowhereman, I'm not sure what points either of us is trying to make... the school thing is an individual choice I'm neither for or against... I might still go.. It was in my plans to apply to places.. I mentioned it was expensive to attend grad school in states - for no real reason except to tell someone it was expensive... If you attend grad school in Canada.. you could near go for free on scholorships.. Is an artist better if they go to school? I would never say or intend such a thing. Personally i would love to see how the ball rolls in NY
Hunter is a state,city school, I would go there as a first choice if I was you poppy. But again you need to find someone you want to study with or at least get along with for a professor.
Why not a school in Montreal, its a nice city. I would go there and I'm living in the US.
If you truely want to be a studio painter Artist i can't offer much advice and don't mean to sound like i am tryin to.
For me went on a school trip to NYC in undergrad and from the minute I got off the bus i knew i would do anything to live here my decisions as an Artist are decisions of survival. visit the city see if you feel it, drop me a line when you do i would be happy to take you around the gallerys
I had $300 left over after I rented my loft. Bullshitted famous slumlord Josh Gutman into renting to me by pretending to be a trustfunder and giving him the # for safe deposit at Shawmut bank knowing nobody would pick up. Those days are over though. New York is expensive. Hunter is like $4000 and the students stretch it out for 4 years for the studio space.
Well it's a state school. I think it sort of makes sense. Anyway I'm friends with some of the students. It seems like a friendlier atmosphere than some programs. Some of the faculty are well known artists.
I went to a state school and you were out after 2 years.
Some people asked for leave of absence, that was a discretionary thing and up to the department head. you only got a semester off. After that if you took more time off your out.
nscad was undergrad as for schools, i want to get more work behind me and clarify some of my own issues anyways.. Poppy is like the man as in grandfather.. a tribute to the man
54 comments:
Lives & works in London
oh! this show was really fresh @ Andrea Rosen! they are huge,
This yellow's light intensity looks so natural, but there is something different about this that I have never seen before.
i have i seem to remember flat with a low gloss, they had all kinds of graffiti and illustration nods but came off more like an old master, but it was a long time ago, on some there are heads of kids on poles. i recall thinking it is what my hood will look like in the aftermath of the apocalypse.
i like his paintings, but i've sensed the hates for him by the billyburg hipster crowd. why? i dunno. i thought the show at AR was very excellent. nothing like it anywhere else. kind of anal, but super accomplished and original, at least to me.
Its a MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD
Taking the piss. Yeah, I am.
u no this shit gets the hate cuz of juxtapoze sensibility type stuff regardless of where nigel is actually coming from - hes a young artist with all the influences of the generation - and it shows, which is good.
peew pa peeew pew!
ro ro ro"
Nigel Cooke is like a blaster shot to the hull of art history.
was this guy featured in juxtapose? I thought I saw him in Parkett or something more legit. this one looks purty solid
take away the narrative aspects of the graphic novel, the moovie, play, separate the characters from the backgrounds and you have the "scene" or "landscape".
The landscape is then the "mise en scene", as with the last painting.
I argue that the lack, or marginalization of figure is key to the "sophistication" of this painting.
Another signifier of sophistication is the horizontality of the composition.
what about this sans figure?
cinemascope
an interesting painter working in a similar vein, landscape from memory and incorporating alot of debris, graffiti, etc.... Etienne Zack.
Get a PHD and a show at the Tate.
im sure some kids would think this stuff is pretty cool, My mom would like this stuff too.. people that know nothing of the history.... she would say oh my god that is beautiful, look at that light, look at that rainbow... why don't you paint something like that or you should try just one at least.
i don't know this Artist background but education, i know in alot of the Commonweath countries it is possible to get grants to study if your good.
the cost of MFA programs in the US in a major city is not that extreme for most people? your the first person in my life i have ever heard say that.
PHD = more time to study with out worrying about the "reel world"
PHD in art is a complete waste of time.
So is a MFA unless you want to teach.
Save your money and find a good group to have crits with if you need feedback on your work.
people that say mfa is a waste of time probably didn't get an mfa.. was undergrad in art a waste of time too? I've heard that as well.. How about ever picking up a brush in the first place? what a waste of time that was... everything is a waste of time that distracts one from breathing..
the $$ thing... I know someone that is doing their mfa at yale... got a full grant/scholarship for first semestar... they had to pay 2nd year in full and 1 year is something like 30 grand i think
How many artists that you like....have the self taught OR qualified... behind them? MFA etc. will give you a way of thinking.... but is that what you want? or will you then have to unlearn all that....
poppy - your in Canada right? - common wealth?
i am the only person on this whole board who thinks "cost" is a factor in education for the girth of the population ? - (if not just the cost of time to invest) or do we operate here like in school where talking about busness is a faux pas? - Artworld is set up for the privy club - which accounts for the high water mark in the gallerys right now? **cough* don't ask don't tell?
I have an MFA.
What I mean is a lot of people buy into this whole thing. To many people want to be artist. Only 1% to 2% from any given program are doing art 5 years after they graduate. I'm just saying think real hard before you sign up for what is becoming a very expensive education.
The PHD is for teaching, what else would it be for? Why on earth would you do this? Grow up and kick the school habit and join the real world.
In this country we don't have a PHD in fine art, only art history and conservation, art therapy.
If the program is the right fit for a student, they can advance their art in one semester what it would take in 5 years on their own. You have round the clock feed back and if it's good and from good people you'll always be happy you went through with it.
What school did you go to?
I have never heard of this, I went to a very good state school and this never happened. I know people who went to Yale, and BU, this does not happen.
You have crit days and then your supposed to be working. The painters in my program for the most part kept to themselves. Some of us talked about our and most where pretty stand offish.
As for the professors they where only in school 2 or 3 days a week and had other commitments, so this gain 5 years of growth thing, wtf are you talking about. There was no round the clock feedback. If you called up a professor at home it had better been about something urgent, like your studio burnt down and all your work was destroyed.
I wont talk about what kind of crap went on at BU or Yale but if you went to those schools you know.
Spending 120k on an art education is not the wisest thing to do.
I saw a lot of very untalented people(in undergrad) being lead along by the nose by professors who where told to keep these students in for their money. How do I know this, I worked in administration as part of my work study grant and over heard this very conversation.
Poppy you sound like your about 22 or 24 years old.
That's ok but as you move on through and get some distance with your education years you will see that it was very small time and that you learn more from years of doing your work.
Hey what grad school did Basquiat and Keith Haring go to?
Basquiat trained as a kid at the Brooklyn Museum but got his real "education" in the factory, Keith Haring dropped out of SVA but you can still see his style in the school and visa. versa, - he got his real education at Studio 64...
much like my undergrad education the school of Disco school of Hard Knocks.
However that is the opposite of nyc now back then you could skip out of your loans and rent was cheap (amid the city was alot "tougher")
MIT Dudes!
anime club
Do you need an anime club? A student union? God? Anyone?
Rochester Institute of Technology
Cal Tech
There's a free electronics school in the basement of a chuirch in the Bronx. If you are a fellon you might not be allowed to attend, and theres no degree. But you do learn electronics.
Riddle me this:
What six degrees did Kevin Bacon get?
what happens when students take over their own university?
school is nessiary to find peers have time to focus on work, get internships but mostly to figure out what your rebeling against. well for me.
i am sick of the "look of american mfa program mainstream" which comes off as
undisplaced unskilled sholder rubing i have to agree with painterdog most of it is a vanity project.
I was about ten years older than my peers in grad school(30's). I learnt nothing(well I learnt a lot about post-modernism)and how to be political, the professors where there 2 days a week and we had access for one day which you had to sign up for.
We had a group crits once a month with a guest "artist" who was usally a friend of one of the profs, and it was and ego fest for them. After they would all go out and get drunk in the local bar with their favorite students and have a good ol time.
I learnt more about painting and print making at the Art Students League than at any other school, and they do not offer any degrees.
To be honest it seems to me that this a very american thing, thinking that one needs so much hand holding to be creative.( i know I will get a lot of flack for this comment but I think its true)
In Britian your more on your own in Grad school and most don't go, they do their under grad and they make or they don't.
The trolling thing should be stopped.
Its desructive to the students and the learning process. You watch you will be seeing a host of Dana Schutz clones in the next few years coming out of Yale, Colombia...
ah trolling i miss my teachers - like steve buscemi in ghostworld.
geez bite me for the typo
no biting please,,
paintdog
totally aware of all arguments for and against school etc..... Your earlier comment rubbed me a bit like ... screw the man, man ..education is for wankers dude! when i first enrolled in undergrad I would end up at parties with guys that would say that stuff.. what are you doing in school loser? just make art dude! anyways i plan on continuing doing what i'm doing regardless of continued school or not..as for the vanity fest and shoulder rubbing.. that is pretty hard to do on the east coast of canada.. It is basically just work your ass off minus the shmooze time. teachers never played you for your $$ either.. if you sucked you knew about it pretty quick.
I apologize for sounding so young painter dog - any suggestions?
hearing stuff like, wait till you get out into the real world makes me think im speaking to a dinosaur.
me 2. I have read several conversations just liek this one, its pretty ubiquitous, people like to discuss it, I guess, I know I do, but where does that get you? Take over the system or don't. If you are, do it and then tell me what you did, and I'll be impressed. Wow, you did it.
Good job soldier!
Columbia needs to get beeter talent - my point with RIT vs. MIT or CalTech - if you can go to MIT do you think you would? ANd if Columbia is committed to talent, dont you think they would recruit the best and brightest?
And who are the best and brightest? And where do they go, a long time passing?
Oh, when will they ever learn?
poppy your not getting any younger.
in a few years, you'll be the dinosaur.
Bitter, me bitter...
No I just hate the BS.
I have nothing against going to art school I just think to many people stsy to long or go on to grad school for the wrong reasons, like they son't know what else to do.
pdog
nothing wrong with feeling that way
of course it is life and many people will do things for the wrong reasons.
when i graduated, many many friends and acquaintances were tripping over each others dicks trying to get into the best grad schools... it was a funny race to watch. it was also a secret, no i won't tell you if or where i'm applying.. you might try to go there. alot of insecurities about the whole deal.
and you are absolutely right, very few will be at this mess in a few years.
i am definatley amazed at the so called amount of peeps thinking they will get into a wicked school and become an artstar.. Isn't the lottery more likely? Maybe i am naive
Painter , my experience of art education was quite similar..... teachers with very little to say and a huge interest in the pub! Feedback is vital but there are other ways to get it.... friends, exhibiton feedback, short courses with artists you respect! The piece of paper with the qualification is of huge interest to the Galleries....as a marketing tool!!
it's hard but possible, i moved 2 nyc with nothing and maintain a 'studio', supplies, (for me thats electric cable tv internet video projector laptop gas) living space and still make it to almost everything in the city, & work on my Art daily, as well as staying up to date with student, hospital loans you have to be a bit of a hussler & hussy. its been just over 4 years right now and i almost everyone i knew 4 years ago laughed about how i wasn't going to make it a day after school.
poppy, your in a common wealth country there is a huge differance - i know i took some film classes in Tornoto between degrees... that was my original point.
- do you think this Artist being able to spend so much time in school lends to the over all end all effect? has anyone else seen them in person?
KJ that sounds perfect to me...visiting super star studios asking stupid questions! What was the best tip you picked up?
I wish I could go, but i dont have time...
http://www.independentschoolofart.org/
Keep working would be the main one I think......so easy to slow down!
nowhereman,
I'm not sure what points either of us is trying to make...
the school thing is an individual choice
I'm neither for or against... I might still go.. It was in my plans to apply to places..
I mentioned it was expensive to attend grad school in states - for no real reason except to tell someone it was expensive... If you attend grad school in Canada.. you could near go for free on scholorships.. Is an artist better if they go to school? I would never say or intend such a thing. Personally i would love to see how the ball rolls in NY
Hunter is inexpensive. The kids are really sweet too.
Hunter is a state,city school, I would go there as a first choice if I was you poppy. But again you need to find someone you want to study with or at least get along with for a professor.
Why not a school in Montreal, its a nice city.
I would go there and I'm living in the US.
If you truely want to be a studio painter Artist i can't offer much advice and don't mean to sound like i am tryin to.
For me went on a school trip to NYC in undergrad and from the minute I got off the bus i knew i would do anything to live here my decisions as an Artist are decisions of survival. visit the city see if you feel it, drop me a line when you do i would be happy to take you around the gallerys
I had $300 left over after I rented my loft. Bullshitted famous slumlord Josh Gutman into renting to me by pretending to be a trustfunder and giving him the # for safe deposit at Shawmut bank knowing nobody would pick up. Those days are over though. New York is expensive. Hunter is like $4000 and the students stretch it out for 4 years for the studio space.
You can do that at Hunter?
Stretch out 2 years to 4?
Man that's one loose administration.
Well it's a state school. I think it sort of makes sense. Anyway I'm friends with some of the students. It seems like a friendlier atmosphere than some programs. Some of the faculty are well known artists.
hunter is in manhattan?
I've heard of it if so - must be well know if i've heard about it..
I went to a state school and you were out after 2 years.
Some people asked for leave of absence, that was a discretionary thing and up to the department head. you only got a semester off. After that if you took more time off your out.
God you people can talk about Grad school at length. I can't think of a more boring or obnoxious topic in relation to painting.
Poppy, it's in Manhattan and Nari Ward and Lisa Davis both teach there. It's part of the CUNY system and vastly less expensive.
Oh so that means they get something in the range of 1200 applications for what 10 spots.
you live in Canada, save your money and go to school their, then move to NY and see what happens.
nscad was undergrad
as for schools, i want to get more work behind me and clarify some of my own issues anyways..
Poppy is like the man as in grandfather.. a tribute to the man
go to school where you want to settle down and live so you can meet people, do interships and figure out how to live.
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