I thought it was a good show though I only really liked one of them. Surprised to know that shes 48 as the work seemed a little unresolved, like she was more at the beginning of her career....
Well I have not seen these in person, but...she's in the same gallery as her spouse. wtf!
They look like shes way to influenced by Neo.
Also they remind of a painter from Scotland who is much better, Stephen Campbell who had pretty good run in NYC in the 80's, got sick of NY and went back to Scotland where he still lives and paints.
You all should check him out, hes with the marlborough gallery in London.
I think Loy is in a higher league than S Campbell. His stuff almost looks like it belongs in Highlights magazine..and I think way overworked. The grit that Rosa leaves in the paintings let you see her thought process and what have you. I see Loy's stuff as more Leipzeig than directly Rauch influenced, though the comparison is a definite knee jerk reaction when looking at this show( I thought the same thing). Strong for a summer show nonetheless... Shes not on Zwirner's artists list yet, does that mean its a trial run or something?.
Campbell as Highlights magazine illustrator... oh boy, I'm not going to argue, its not worth it. if you don't like Campbell so be it. He was doing this stream of conscience thing 20 years ago.
Seeing the procees does not make it a better painting.
Her work is akward and very influenced by Neo Rauch its so obvious.
I see the campbell relation, but its pretty weak to me. I see this kind of painting of more in relation to Balthus, Delvaux, and in the 80s I guess someone like Paula Rego(sic?).
I see Tamara, but kind of only in terms of the time period that this springs from(in inspiration). What is intriguing about so many of these Leipzig artists(even if its a marketing ploy they do paint similarly and come from the same area[s]) is that they seem to chose an alternate route of art history to continue, and somewhat effectively sidestep a lot of baggage that weighs many of us down. Thats why I think Rego doesnt really relate to this school, as her stuff is so clearly of the late 20th cent(esp 80s). Loy is kind of the most obvious example of these artists in their attempt to pick up from the 30s and 40s, while still feeling contemporary. There is something in the paint handling that makes it feel current, but I dont want to see it just as late Picabia-acknowledgment(cause doesnt that make it just 80s-ish?). Personally I'm not even that crazy about this school, but I do feel that they make one of the more engrossing arguments for figuration currently.
alright so what do want call that group? almost every previous group were misnamed and categorized for someone else's sake, big f-ing deal...
please tell me the new name we should use to refer to Neo Rauch, Rosa Loy, Christian Schüle, Christoph Ruckhäberle, Matthias weischer plus maybe Johannes Tiepelmann and others, who all appear to be working in a related vein
Martin Eder, who I've seen grouped in with them, doesnt really seem to fit.
The only recent American groups I can compare too is stuff like paper rad, derrain drop, forcefield, maybe plus avaf, etc....However it doesnt really work as nicely. I dont see too many other groups..or maybe this whole frame of thought is just corrupt or something, and I'm duping myself. Please testify
thats where "obnoxious" comes in his whole "i know something you don't know" super-duper secret society club game - for the grand prize what did he study in collage? - i do miss walking down the street with him when he would shout "keebs" and cat call jerry and roberta.
this painting is much flatter than rauch they both got the weirdness factor working for them... what makes a school these days,, content, technique? I don't see the relationship in the latter.. we tie artists together with a very loose rope... because we need to - gallerys, curators, critics need to feel they still have a job to do.
"There IS NO LEIPZIG school, it is a marketing joke. Several of the artists know it themselves."
Its not hard to call bullshit on any group - i allready did, but Dante "I own hell" Venti Pellegrino here gets a response? Fuck that.
A school requires adherents to rules, commonly (tacitly or not) agreed upon. I dont see a connection between rausch and loy anymore than I see a connection to the ASHCAN school or as Kelley says - Lempicka (deco/soft cubism) deco for decorative or decadent, not a bad parallel for the times, and Germany was the center for cabaret culture or something my history isnt that great, but Weimar is a good touchstone.
So if you thingk about school more as philosophically based I could go for a leipzig school, go ahead and convince me.
On the flip side against the denials - who wants to be considered directly derivative?
Still, this Rausch -Loy comparison is obnoxious. I don't see it.
You cannot be serious.-McEenroe. Will Ferrell said it too, you know?
At the risk of being populist Diego-Khalo - the movie was on and I fell asleep around where Frida cheats on Diego with some slut. That movie sucked because it focused on the relationship rather than the art - same with the Pollock movie.
maybe filmakers/audiences cant wrap their heads around more than three characters anymore. But If you look at the old movies it was all Mr. Plumb that and Mean Mrs. Mustard this, and there were secret passages to ropes and hot wax and russian roulette. I'll take Hitchcock over Scream 2 anydayoftheweek.
This Loy is neither Deco, decorative, decadent, or cubist. It reminds me of that socialite that Painter had up a couple of months ago. My sidebar is gone, so I cant look it up. The little girl in the red interior.
I can't think of anyone on the West Coast who paints like this. Whooo. We lucked out.
I head The hype over Chinese art was called "the new orientalism" or as I say "The China Syndrome" because of many of the reasons you stated allready and back to the original Armory Show, which hired a circus barker and used mass media to advertise to the masses, via mass media.
I guess some people think the Chinese are over their emultaion phase (modernism or whatever) and have now achieved their own generic transnational modern culture, but all I've ever seen is heavy handed allegory or "conceptualism" of the sort you see at rural universities across culturally impovrished america, or sometimes at not for profit art collective group shows.
i thought "schools" were defined by basic things physical geography, realm of possibilities, media, time peroid and well money - i heard a collector talkin about how the Pop Artists were not even aware of each other until he had them all over for dinner one day.
I feel like Clem Greenberg when I say ...just use the upper right hand section of the jpeg, crop the rest out...but I don't know I don't really get it...maybe more of her work would flush it out...I do like that upper corner though.
this painting is greener than green...snakes in a basket, snakes making a pattern up the left side, Thalo green here, thalo green there, thalo green with white in it...you take the lipstick off the black tight wearer snake holder and this painting crumbles...snakes in the folds of blue blanket covering woman not holding snakes...ugh. that lipstick...little touch of red makes barely lovely. The black works a touch. Hiss, Hiss Diebenkorns, Matissean vision allowed to survive in a lenient environment.
It is very much a take on Southern Folk painting from the 1800's. Her figures remind me a bit of Peyton. They have a feminine look to them, somewhat androgynous.
fffff.... hey Zip you're riggght... got to be able to cut it up with a sharp knife and still shiver...
pretty complicated picture kind of making me dizzy... this is the kind of stuff you all like ? It's another world for me. Still--doesn't hurt to meal in another room other than the meal room, right!
hey bouncer, question unrelated to this conversation...
are you painter? the reason i ask is because painter never posts and there is always someone here that just invented a new profile..
Get on here painter, you want to have a conversation about painting?...what do you think of all these paintings that you post? Sorry i'm being really nosey, I'm too curious because i couldn't have a blog myself that everyone visits and not post- I'd be obsessed actually.
are the eels making their hands turn grey or are their grey hands turning the linen into eels? or is it just super fucked?
Hi Poppy: I know Painter in passing and he/she doesn't often post because well, Painter is a kickass painter who spends a lot of time painting and also because the forum is intended to be democratic and he/she doesn't want to limit the discussions or inhibit people from speaking.
UM, Well, first shot for me in a museum was a 72 X 72 self portrait in black and white oil with silver and gold oil stick on Belgium linen, entitled "The Judas Kiss" it had this foil of a wright brother's wing coming out of the right eye. Something to do with flight, as I remember, another wing, also a dagger. The other eye had its eyelid replicating drifting off in a curve out to the other side of the canvas, very feminine, and soft. Some time after it seemed the outer sheaf was doing something else, though still remember that first bed partner, and its hang! And really consider not a lot has changed!
Painter puts a lot of time into getting the best image to fairly represent an artist to people who might not know all their work. He/she will even call a gallery to get a better image. Geek trivia: In regard to he/she male is not the root word of female as is commonly supposed. It is femellus, also the root of fetus ( to suckle) and was spelled with an e until the 1300's.
Blogwarrior I am referring to the type of painting done by untrained artist during the 1800's. You seem them a lot in Southern museums. Flattened figures, somewhat childlike, set in a specific period trying to capture everyday settings. I tried to google and find some images and references but I could not find anything of note. Probably because those artist are relatively unknown except on a regional basis. The best I could do is Edward Hicks. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Edward_Hicks_001.jpg
Hi Poppy, Thanks for your interest in me and my blog. I post as Painter and that is it. I don't post comments to often that is true. I do however read all the comment everyday, pick the paintings and try to respond to all my emails. I think a lot about the blog and what is said here. I think you asked before about my picture site. Those are of artist friends and my life around town. I just like pictures. Sorry if I don't answer all of your questions but I guess I don't think me personally is so important to the blog. I am glad you have joined. You say good things.
Hi Kelli. Thanks for saying I am kick ass, that was funny.
thanks painter, that was enough background to satisfy my curiousity... alot of great comments and suggestions here! You are very important - i consider you my dealer and this my new drug...
Now i want to see your kick-ass work show me please before i go into withdrawls.
I don't think she is emulating the folk style, although you never know. Her work just reminded me of those paintings. I'm sure her style is derived from a contemporary source of sorts. Once I explained the folk art commented, did you understand? Could you see it?
I saw the show today in the sweltering heat. I'm still draw in by the compositions, her paint is not great but that works in her favor, most cases. I like them but also reminded me of paintings that end up in thrift stores. I don't consider that a bad thing either.
Rosa Loy @
ReplyDeleteDavid Zwirner
525 West 19th Street (between 10th Ave. and West St.)
New York, NY 10011
tel 212 727-2070 fax 212 727-2072
Lives and works in Germany
i thought they were very queer and kinky - shocked to realize she was with Neo Rauch!
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a good show though I only really liked one of them. Surprised to know that shes 48 as the work seemed a little unresolved, like she was more at the beginning of her career....
ReplyDeleteWell I have not seen these in person, but...she's in the same gallery as her spouse. wtf!
ReplyDeleteThey look like shes way to influenced by Neo.
Also they remind of a painter from Scotland who is much better, Stephen Campbell who had pretty good run in NYC in the 80's, got sick of NY and went back to Scotland where he still lives and paints.
You all should check him out, hes with the marlborough gallery in London.
the thing about Charlie is he TRIES SO HARD to be obnoxious.
ReplyDeleteI think Loy is in a higher league than S Campbell. His stuff almost looks like it belongs in Highlights magazine..and I think way overworked. The grit that Rosa leaves in the paintings let you see her thought process and what have you. I see Loy's stuff as more Leipzeig than directly Rauch influenced, though the comparison is a definite knee jerk reaction when looking at this show( I thought the same thing). Strong for a summer show nonetheless...
ReplyDeleteShes not on Zwirner's artists list yet, does that mean its a trial run or something?.
Charlie winz the obnoxious award hands down.
ReplyDeleteCampbell as Highlights magazine illustrator...
ReplyDeleteoh boy, I'm not going to argue, its not worth it. if you don't like Campbell so be it. He was doing this stream of conscience thing 20 years ago.
Seeing the procees does not make it a better painting.
Her work is akward and very influenced by Neo Rauch its so obvious.
I see the campbell relation, but its pretty weak to me. I see this kind of painting of more in relation to Balthus, Delvaux, and in the 80s I guess someone like Paula Rego(sic?).
ReplyDeleteon second thought scratch the Paul Rego link
ReplyDeletePaula Rego, is in a different league than this artist. I like Roach but Rego is so much more soulful.
ReplyDeleteI like some of Campbell's work some of it I think is real bad. But he's an interesting person, and his work has gotten richer with time.
He stopped painting for 6 or 7 years because he was fed up with his work.
Then he exploded with all this work in his late forties.
Campbell was a steel worker in the ship yards of Glasgow(when they still had them)out of high school. Then went to Glasgow school of Art.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.goodart.org/artoftdl.htm
ReplyDeleteHow about Tamara deLempicka? I kind of agree with the remark about Delvaux too.
Yes Tamara de lempica.... the colours.......
ReplyDeleteAnd why not show your unresolved work to the world.... someone may come up with an answer!
I see Tamara, but kind of only in terms of the time period that this springs from(in inspiration). What is intriguing about so many of these Leipzig artists(even if its a marketing ploy they do paint similarly and come from the same area[s]) is that they seem to chose an alternate route of art history to continue, and somewhat effectively sidestep a lot of baggage that weighs many of us down. Thats why I think Rego doesnt really relate to this school, as her stuff is so clearly of the late 20th cent(esp 80s). Loy is kind of the most obvious example of these artists in their attempt to pick up from the 30s and 40s, while still feeling contemporary.
ReplyDeleteThere is something in the paint handling that makes it feel current, but I dont want to see it just as late Picabia-acknowledgment(cause doesnt that make it just 80s-ish?). Personally I'm not even that crazy about this school, but I do feel that they make one of the more engrossing arguments for figuration currently.
alright so what do want call that group? almost every previous group were misnamed and categorized for someone else's sake, big f-ing deal...
ReplyDeleteplease tell me the new name we should use to refer to Neo Rauch, Rosa Loy, Christian Schüle, Christoph Ruckhäberle, Matthias weischer plus maybe Johannes Tiepelmann and others, who all appear to be working in a related vein
Martin Eder, who I've seen grouped in with them, doesnt really seem to fit.
The only recent American groups I can compare too is stuff like paper rad, derrain drop, forcefield, maybe plus avaf, etc....However it doesnt really work as nicely. I dont see too many other groups..or maybe this whole frame of thought is just corrupt or something, and I'm duping myself. Please testify
I'm interested in hearing about the magic-school-theory as well! Please, please testify!
ReplyDeleteisn't that in florida?
ReplyDeleteum I think that's where the original-original recipe of kettle-chips came from.
ReplyDeletemagic .. in the eels/snakes..
ReplyDeleteWhat's in the basket?
Painting in Leipzig, apparently.
ReplyDeleteSnake-oil? I'm interested in hearing
it from Speranza.
As with Rauch I like the compositions but ahh what dose it all mean?
ReplyDeletethats where "obnoxious" comes in his whole "i know something you don't know" super-duper secret society club game - for the grand prize what did he study in collage? - i do miss walking down the street with him when he would shout "keebs" and cat call jerry and roberta.
ReplyDeletethis painting is much flatter than rauch
ReplyDeletethey both got the weirdness factor working for them... what makes a school these days,, content, technique? I don't see the relationship in the latter..
we tie artists together with a very loose rope... because we need to - gallerys, curators, critics need to feel they still have a job to do.
"There IS NO LEIPZIG school, it is a marketing joke. Several of the artists know it themselves."
ReplyDeleteIts not hard to call bullshit on any group - i allready did, but Dante "I own hell" Venti Pellegrino here gets a response? Fuck that.
A school requires adherents to rules, commonly (tacitly or not) agreed upon. I dont see a connection between rausch and loy anymore than I see a connection to the ASHCAN school or as Kelley says - Lempicka (deco/soft cubism)
deco for decorative or decadent, not a bad parallel for the times, and Germany was the center for cabaret culture or something my history isnt that great, but Weimar is a good touchstone.
So if you thingk about school more as philosophically based I could go for a leipzig school, go ahead and convince me.
On the flip side against the denials - who wants to be considered directly derivative?
Still, this Rausch -Loy comparison is obnoxious. I don't see it.
You cannot be serious.-McEenroe.
Will Ferrell said it too, you know?
ha ha
ReplyDeletegood one
At the risk of being populist Diego-Khalo - the movie was on and I fell asleep around where Frida cheats on Diego with some slut. That movie sucked because it focused on the relationship rather than the art - same with the Pollock movie.
ReplyDeletemaybe filmakers/audiences cant wrap their heads around more than three characters anymore. But If you look at the old movies it was all Mr. Plumb that and Mean Mrs. Mustard this, and there were secret passages to ropes and hot wax and russian roulette. I'll take Hitchcock over Scream 2 anydayoftheweek.
But Johnny Mac really meant it.
ReplyDeleteThis Loy is neither Deco, decorative, decadent, or cubist. It reminds me of that socialite that Painter had up a couple of months ago. My sidebar is gone, so I cant look it up. The little girl in the red interior.
I can't think of anyone on the West Coast who paints like this. Whooo. We lucked out.
worduup
ReplyDelete5/9/2006
ReplyDeleteKerri Scharlin
Looks like part of the Neo Rausch diaspora to me. Hasn't reached my neighborhood .
Thanks KJ that was very illuminating.
ReplyDeleteI head The hype over Chinese art was called "the new orientalism" or as I say "The China Syndrome" because of many of the reasons you stated allready and back to the original Armory Show, which hired a circus barker and used mass media to advertise to the masses, via mass media.
I guess some people think the Chinese are over their emultaion phase (modernism or whatever) and have now achieved their own generic transnational modern culture, but all I've ever seen is heavy handed allegory or "conceptualism" of the sort you see at rural universities across culturally impovrished america, or sometimes at not for profit art collective group shows.
Blog Warrior - Finch.
ReplyDeletei thought "schools" were defined by basic things physical geography, realm of possibilities, media, time peroid and well money - i heard a collector talkin about how the Pop Artists were not even aware of each other until he had them all over for dinner one day.
eels
ReplyDeletegoogle "eel porn" it is pretty common, - if i recall right all these paintings had a fetish in em.
ReplyDeletefresh!
ReplyDeleteyum!
What's the painting name?
ReplyDeleteWhat are the girls up to?
I like the right hand triangle pull layout......
I feel like Clem Greenberg when I say ...just use the upper right hand section of the jpeg, crop the rest out...but I don't know I don't really get it...maybe more of her work would flush it out...I do like that upper corner though.
ReplyDeleteHow about the left hand of the girl sitting on the bed--why is it on backwards?
ReplyDeleteYes I'd take off the vertical 1/3rd on the left...
ReplyDeletethis painting is greener than green...snakes in a basket, snakes making a pattern up the left side, Thalo green here, thalo green there, thalo green with white in it...you take the lipstick off the black tight wearer snake holder and this painting crumbles...snakes in the folds of blue blanket covering woman not holding snakes...ugh. that lipstick...little touch of red makes barely lovely. The black works a touch. Hiss, Hiss
ReplyDeleteDiebenkorns, Matissean vision allowed to survive in a lenient environment.
it bothers me that it's assumed that Loy was influence by Rauch... could very well be the other way around...
ReplyDeleteIt is very much a take on Southern Folk painting from the 1800's. Her figures remind me a bit of Peyton. They have a feminine look to them, somewhat androgynous.
ReplyDeletefffff.... hey Zip you're riggght... got to be able to cut it up with a sharp knife and still shiver...
ReplyDeletepretty complicated picture kind of making me dizzy... this is the kind of stuff you all like ? It's another world for me. Still--doesn't hurt to meal in another room other than the meal room, right!
quik brent who's your fav contemp painter?
ReplyDeletehey bouncer, question unrelated to this conversation...
ReplyDeleteare you painter? the reason i ask is because painter never posts and there is always someone here that just invented a new profile..
Get on here painter, you want to have a conversation about painting?...what do you think of all these paintings that you post? Sorry i'm being really nosey, I'm too curious because i couldn't have a blog myself that everyone visits and not post- I'd be obsessed actually.
are the eels making their hands turn grey or are their grey hands turning the linen into eels? or is it just super fucked?
Hi Poppy: I know Painter in passing and he/she doesn't often post because well, Painter is a kickass painter who spends a lot of time painting and also because the forum is intended to be democratic and he/she doesn't want to limit the discussions or inhibit people from speaking.
ReplyDeleteCooky and bounce2
ReplyDeleteUM, Well, first shot for me in a museum was a 72 X 72 self portrait in black and white oil with silver and gold oil stick on Belgium linen, entitled "The Judas Kiss" it had this foil of a wright brother's wing coming out of the right eye. Something to do with flight, as I remember, another wing, also a dagger. The other eye had its eyelid replicating drifting off in a curve out to the other side of the canvas, very feminine, and soft.
Some time after it seemed the outer sheaf was doing something else, though still remember that first bed partner, and its hang! And really consider not a lot has changed!
Besides It's all bitmap and history!
Best Contemp? There are too many!!!!
if there are too many pick top 5 still alive and working
ReplyDeleteps I have no idea what that 1st paragraph said
ReplyDeletePainter puts a lot of time into getting the best image to fairly represent an artist to people who might not know all their work. He/she will even call a gallery to get a better image.
ReplyDeleteGeek trivia: In regard to he/she male is not the root word of female as is commonly supposed. It is femellus, also the root of fetus ( to suckle) and was spelled with an e until the 1300's.
Blogwarrior
ReplyDeleteI am referring to the type of painting done by untrained artist during the 1800's. You seem them a lot in Southern museums. Flattened figures, somewhat childlike, set in a specific period trying to capture everyday settings. I tried to google and find some images and references but I could not find anything of note. Probably because those artist are relatively unknown except on a regional basis. The best I could do is Edward Hicks.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Edward_Hicks_001.jpg
Hi Poppy,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your interest in me and my blog. I post as Painter and that is it. I don't post comments to often that is true. I do however read all the comment everyday, pick the paintings and try to respond to all my emails. I think a lot about the blog and what is said here.
I think you asked before about my picture site. Those are of artist friends and my life around town. I just like pictures.
Sorry if I don't answer all of your questions but I guess I don't think me personally is so important to the blog.
I am glad you have joined. You say good things.
Hi Kelli. Thanks for saying I am kick ass, that was funny.
thanks painter,
ReplyDeletethat was enough background to satisfy my curiousity... alot of great comments and suggestions here!
You are very important - i consider you my dealer and this my new drug...
Now i want to see your kick-ass work
show me please before i go into withdrawls.
German fetish eel sex gloves - ha
ReplyDeletethat's what i was almost thinking!
Please send me a pair..
... just following ancient his-tor-y if I grab an eel for you... will you grab an eel for me.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah! Please post more! Where's the flood?
ReplyDeleteoh/ for a sec I thought I was at
the 'other' blog about grabbin eels.
While I'm here, I must reinforce Poppy's sentiment
Bravo Painter!
Hope you're getting as much out of it
as we are.
Oh and can you please post those
ReplyDeleteapperently 'lost' lesbo scenes cut out of
the original Basic Instinct?
I don't think she is emulating the folk style, although you never know. Her work just reminded me of those paintings. I'm sure her style is derived from a contemporary source of sorts. Once I explained the folk art commented, did you understand? Could you see it?
ReplyDeleteI saw the show today in the sweltering heat. I'm still draw in by the compositions, her paint is not great but that works in her favor, most cases. I like them but also reminded me of paintings that end up in thrift stores. I don't consider that a bad thing either.
ReplyDeletedear newyorker:
ReplyDeleteThe checks in the mail.
eel porn
ReplyDelete