tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post116109439602000741..comments2023-10-30T06:13:31.296-04:00Comments on PaintersNYC: Elizabeth MurrayPainterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05087735650298480553noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161718802558531082006-10-24T15:40:00.000-04:002006-10-24T15:40:00.000-04:00I think a Donald Judd can be seen to have a huge a...I think a Donald Judd can be seen to have a huge amount of content, as a reflection of its time, the philosphical underpinnings to the movement it belonged, the way it can be viewed as a reaction to previous art, and as a pure aesthetic statement. For example I'm not a fan of that painting, but the Pat Steir shown here can be argued to possess a great deal of content, although it is a somewhat pure abstraction. I can read content in EM, but I cant make rhyme or reason of it.Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414815083075269480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161701349151850142006-10-24T10:49:00.000-04:002006-10-24T10:49:00.000-04:00Perhaps I'm saying she gives no discernible justif...Perhaps I'm saying she gives no discernible justification for what she uses as her chess set, which is why the whole premise of this kind of art is so confusing to younger generations. I really dont understand what the point of inspiration in this painting is, besides playing out a game of set aesthetics. And yes, one doesnt need justification to create art, I agree, but ascertaining the reasoning behind the artist's thoughts can help.Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414815083075269480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161663641910147922006-10-24T00:20:00.000-04:002006-10-24T00:20:00.000-04:00cookly, are you saying EM is anti-ntellectual (no ...cookly, are you saying EM is anti-ntellectual (no content) or are you saying she is using stand ins for her chess pieces?<BR/><BR/>Im never sure, because I get in fights when sincerity is the issue.zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161648252348767212006-10-23T20:04:00.000-04:002006-10-23T20:04:00.000-04:00just to belabor, I see this as formalist work beca...just to belabor, I see this as formalist work because I percieve it as having zero content. To my eyes it is just a haphazard celebration of generic form and color. I see a conscious choice on the part of the artist to disregard whatever content these forms and colors connotate (ren and stimpy? she predates them. 80s confetti? that too . if shes having a dialogue with Picasso its just with the trashy cartoon works of his, not the analytical pure cubist stuff), so what pop sensibility would em be alluding to? I always saw this as taking the worst elements of late Miro, rainbow Kandinsky, and Hockney's lowpoint when he was making those gaudy opera stage designs, putting them in a blender than endlessly rehashing the combinations. If the selling point on this work's intellectual merit is its relation to the formal elements of Picasso, then that seems an incredibly tired proposition for a late 20thcentury artist. For someone to belittle the Oehlen show as ab-ex w spray doodles and then to laud this work (which gains merit from Picasso references?) is astonishing. If this is pop art, then it is castrated pop art without its bite or critique, taking on the forms of Pop only for their abstract visual qualities. Pure formalism to me is when art is treated just like an everchanging jigsaw puzzle, where each piece is placed next to the other because it looks good, or creates an interesting visual response. This is how I see all of Em's work, and that type of artmaking I find incredibly frightening. <BR/>Kj I have found other things you have said to be interesting, I'll agree to disagree on taste, but am interested in any elaboration on the merits of the pop argument.Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414815083075269480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161624328364906932006-10-23T13:25:00.000-04:002006-10-23T13:25:00.000-04:00I can't always keep up with Zip. Now who is going ...I can't always keep up with Zip. Now who is going around to galleries with this doctored slide sheet. Ruggedly handsome, scruffy, 6 foot tall hipster guy in the house?kellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026153505404995756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161623662416114542006-10-23T13:14:00.000-04:002006-10-23T13:14:00.000-04:00You mean nice job zip. Pay attention kelli!You mean nice job zip. Pay attention kelli!youth--lesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04766715817815803423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161450857388991312006-10-21T13:14:00.000-04:002006-10-21T13:14:00.000-04:00Nice job Cookie.Nice job Cookie.kellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026153505404995756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161397728297080102006-10-20T22:28:00.000-04:002006-10-20T22:28:00.000-04:00unfuckingreal<A HREF="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3025/851/1600/em_pacman.0.jpg" REL="nofollow">unfuckingreal</A>Svenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414815083075269480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161363119960684692006-10-20T12:51:00.000-04:002006-10-20T12:51:00.000-04:00oh wrong thread. Still it fits. If this work doesn...oh wrong thread. Still it fits. If this work doesnt include "angry" Im not into it.zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161363032683141542006-10-20T12:50:00.000-04:002006-10-20T12:50:00.000-04:00We are stardust, we are golden, We are billion-yea...We are stardust, we are golden, <BR/>We are billion-year-old carbon, <BR/>And we've got to get ourselves <BR/>Back to the garden. <BR/><BR/>I mean Im not the target audience, not even in a polysemic ambiguous multivalent polymorphous way. Except maybe the Russ Meyer Angle. The real obtuse one.zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161224893321432592006-10-18T22:28:00.000-04:002006-10-18T22:28:00.000-04:00hey kelli:)hey kelli:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161222994065230742006-10-18T21:56:00.000-04:002006-10-18T21:56:00.000-04:00Brent you made me laugh hard. I had heard that abo...Brent you made me laugh hard. I had heard that about Krispy Kreme but never formalism.kellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026153505404995756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161222045202848492006-10-18T21:40:00.000-04:002006-10-18T21:40:00.000-04:00wow this thread is still going. Peter's URL chimes...wow this thread is still going. Peter's URL chimes in, new homepage, new work. There's this new color thing going on. The message here is the war was won, at least by one. And most here seem to support The formal as old klu klux klan. <BR/>Formal for me was something like the song 'nothing going on, or another word for Prom. Though, with just about everything, you can talk the formal side of things. And heck, the real good shit you don't need to talk about anything, at all--it's just out there!<BR/><BR/>Anyhow, when you put things together, and you are not really sure of what goes next, your are having fun, the war was won, things fall apart one by one, or in a shower, in a bucket, the war was won!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161216796258145952006-10-18T20:13:00.000-04:002006-10-18T20:13:00.000-04:00Heres a good cancer story. My friend growing up (I...Heres a good cancer story. My friend growing up (I had three or four) calls me up and says do I want to go to the ciuty and hang out because his mom is going and he has to go. <BR/><BR/>I say ok. I forget if I knew why we were going, but now I probably would have said no.<BR/><BR/>SO we go into the city and my friends mom drops us off and we go and do stuff like I dont know play video games.<BR/><BR/>So my friends mom comes back and says her friend just died of lukemia and it was very painfull and I just look at her and I have no idea what leukemia is, really, and the most painfull thing I ever felt was hitting my knee on the gym floor or maybe when my brother tricked me into walking into a patch of thorns when I was three.<BR/><BR/>DO you think I could make money off that story? If so where should I publish it when I get it polished up?zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161215805798690172006-10-18T19:56:00.000-04:002006-10-18T19:56:00.000-04:00Also - is art just bon motts or is it more a relig...Also - is art just bon motts or is it more a religion, because I am pope. pop. Whatever.zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161215695037141222006-10-18T19:54:00.000-04:002006-10-18T19:54:00.000-04:00Duuude. Pay to play man. I dont care if I spent th...Duuude. Pay to play man. I dont care if I spent the governments money, my parents money, my money or Ceazars money (all of the above) - its all money and its gone daddy gone. Just like my youth. I can feel that going too. I have a good imagination so I can see where its headed. Cavities, organ failure dementia and abject destitution. I might add I have a good cancer chance based on metal dust and xylol or whatever.<BR/><BR/>Well spent I'd say. this prodigal son may not be able to go home again, but what they quote on that stupid art rag - form follows wallet.<BR/><BR/>In conclusion, peter seems to be headed in a good direction - i thought he was a gonner what with all that wine and cheese. Full circle? I dunno. <BR/><BR/>As far as being first - well where were the trenches and where were you in relation to the Turkish machine guns?zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161210115295071242006-10-18T18:21:00.000-04:002006-10-18T18:21:00.000-04:00When I saw the Talking Heads in 1980, I loved the ...When I saw the Talking Heads in 1980, I loved the music, but it was such an incredible deal to see Tina playing the bass. I had NEVER seen a woman playing an instrument in a band before. Can you imagine that? Susie Quatro doesnt count;)youth--lesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04766715817815803423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161208792889054232006-10-18T17:59:00.000-04:002006-10-18T17:59:00.000-04:00anti oedipusThe new generation does not understand...<A HREF="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3025/851/320/em_pacman.0.jpg" REL="nofollow">anti oedipus</A><BR/><BR/>The new generation does not understand this appolonian-dyonysian duality, even though its rooted in physiological truth. It has beeen scientifically shown, somewhere, I'l look it up, that the mind (mine and yours) uses metaphors, metonymy and - synecdoches and other literary stuff - to make order from chaos. <BR/><BR/>To make readable. Why are our pictures puzzles? BEcause the audience is the academic power structure? The academic power structure gives creedence to a overhyped hobby? The hobby that jack built? COntingent on a faith - a tissue of lies? The lie that keeps on giving.<BR/><BR/>ELizabeth Murray Makes chaos from chaos, and so its hard to judge her on formalist grounds - wahts the game?<BR/><BR/>THe game is resistance, and in that she failed, having been INEVITABLY assimilated. having been assimilated, she should emerge from her cocoon, change to a style that is more true to form, or be reviled as a museum.<BR/><BR/>Resistance isnt an age thing, other than old people get tired of resisting and yearn for the security of health insurance, vacations, and regular meals. Yes, old people are soft.<BR/><BR/>If that is oedipal, who gives a fuck. Its true.<BR/><BR/>But so then what is the use of resistance? In its own way it can be as mindless as the so called lemmings.<BR/><BR/>Or mindfull. Lemmings of the resistance unite and turn the wheel!zipthwunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02761727194113640578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161200671239412152006-10-18T15:44:00.000-04:002006-10-18T15:44:00.000-04:00Well that was pre-national attention, tomas, her e...Well that was pre-national attention, tomas, her early work. The big ugly mid 80s work was her famous stuff--<BR/><BR/>Jerry says: Murray's accomplishment is breathtaking but knotty. She built a bridge between the formalist-pluralist-pop concerns of the 1960s and '70s and what followed. For this she is respected and loved. I'm sometimes afraid that this bridge strikes young artists as being too brazen, Dionysian, and leading too close to areas currently deemed too excessive and expressionistic. Nevertheless, I think artists like Dana Schutz, Matthew Ritchie, Katharina Grosse, and Chris Ofilli, among others, are making use of this bridge, even if none of them profess a specific interest in Murray. No matter. Murray's bridge will likely serve as a crucial link to the undiscovered country that lies ahead for painting.youth--lesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04766715817815803423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161198239257214282006-10-18T15:03:00.001-04:002006-10-18T15:03:00.001-04:00Back again after taking some time to think... Tom...Back again after taking some time to think... Tomas - did you perceive my comment from yesterday as snarky? I didn't mean it that way. I just genuinely find this work to be irritating. It's static. It lacks evolution. It's rooted in '80's vernacular graphic design. But why? What do these shapes and colors and gestures mean outside the decade that inspired them? What do they mean to the artist? Are veiewers able to comprehend the artist's intentions? Why hasn't the artist moved on?<BR/><BR/>I hear what others have said about the age thing.. How time shrinks as one ages and the '80's might not seem that far off to someone in her sixties... But since this work refers so directly to late '80's, early '90's graphic design I'm unable to look at it without experiencing an uncomfortable wave of nostalgia. Is this what Murray intended when she made these paintings in 2003?<BR/><BR/>It may be that more time needs to go by before I can appreciate them as paintings, not mementos.SisterBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134781418698449972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161197718402583912006-10-18T14:55:00.000-04:002006-10-18T14:55:00.000-04:00As I recall, she got attention because she made em...As I recall, she got attention because she made em big and ugly like Schnabel & JMB and they called it neo-expressionism.<BR/><BR/>Most of the meaning and impact falls by the wayside for a young person, it seems. Like how painting the objects of everyday domestic life big and splashy was a feminist statement. How can someone born in 1982 understand that? The meaning is lost, apparently.youth--lesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04766715817815803423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161191301388542832006-10-18T13:08:00.000-04:002006-10-18T13:08:00.000-04:00Hey KJ I'm not that strict. It's true it's hard to...Hey KJ I'm not that strict. It's true it's hard to see her work without preconcieved notions and I admit to being in the con camp but people brought up good points about her historical place. I still think it would be funny to photoshop in Miss Pac Man and send a slacker guy with a fake M.F.A. out to galleries with a doctored slide sheet.kellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026153505404995756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161178514138329092006-10-18T09:35:00.000-04:002006-10-18T09:35:00.000-04:00The further we go into the information age the mor...The further we go into the information age the more it seems sensible to head out of it into experience. <BR/> Think! OK, yawn first!<BR/>Maybe we have discovered all the graphic computations of life, the vertical, diagonal, and the horizontal, which can be turned into a venus, the circle, and the cube, but still, think, at the level of how you know how, how it works. Hmmm!<BR/><BR/>We've discovered the box! We can also put human feelings inside and outside of that! <BR/>Think we are clever with box construction?<BR/> Think! Nervous people have grievances. Think it funny! <BR/>Think!<BR/> Nothing about it!<BR/><BR/>Someone fighting your battle is not fighting their own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161158666995670552006-10-18T04:04:00.000-04:002006-10-18T04:04:00.000-04:00There is a Rauchenberg quote on Scott Taylor's blo...There is a Rauchenberg quote on Scott Taylor's blog<BR/>that's gripped me today-- partly because I think it's <BR/>destructive and heresy, and partly because I've always<BR/>held it as a mantra.<BR/><BR/>"...When an artist loses that terror, he's through..."<BR/><BR/>And only a lemming would say that's heresy.<BR/><BR/>And of course alone in the studio, trying to<BR/>do something at all, let alone trying to do<BR/>something different -- can be quite terrifying.<BR/>Cuz if not the the weight of tradition, then<BR/>the weight of the market. If not the weight<BR/>of bills, then the weight of our critical peers.<BR/>And still the weight of bills.<BR/><BR/>Terrifying i tell you. If only I were a lemming.<BR/><BR/>And counter to Rauchenberg's statement,<BR/>is a contemporary one -- 'if you haven't sold<BR/>out by the time you're 30, you've got no brain'.<BR/><BR/>If only we were lemmings.jpegCritichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04355558084184256062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18710060.post-1161150496837141122006-10-18T01:48:00.000-04:002006-10-18T01:48:00.000-04:00KJ you know I'm a big Lefty and sort of a closet h...KJ you know I'm a big Lefty and sort of a closet hippie pretending to be punk ( haven't eaten meat for 20 years) but you don't respect other artists by putting them in a shrine or in the case of women a fiercely gaurded pantheon that includes people like Kusama and Mary Cassat who actually don't really belong together at all.<BR/>Plan for tomorrow. I'm going to wake up make a wish for Murray's health and well being and honor her legacy by working on something that looks and is very different.<BR/>No irony intended. Best wishes and be well.kellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026153505404995756noreply@blogger.com