Joseph Mallord William Turner


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zipthwung said...

You could approach this from many angles, all of them sound.

Your friend might be with you for the rest of your career - or you might lose touch - however your work will be with her for as long as she values the work.

You should charge enough that if she falls out of love with you or your work or both, that she will want to sell it or at least find a home for it (as it is apparent you value the work). This is what is known as a "divorce."

Now much is enough to ensure the work will not be discarded like a wet diaper?

Olav Velthius says art is priced with arbitrary means ("scripts" in the parlance of sociology). He's right. Many people go by size, and as you intimated, reputation, schooling and other indicators of seriousness.

For a small painting we could put the price in a gallery in New York at somewhere between 500 and 2,500 - the high end assuming you are notorious for something (famous for being famous, a musician, a criminal, some kind of prodigy).

That said, you want to keep your prices competitive and gradually grow them. 2,500 assumes you are poised for a breakthrough to star status or already there.

If your friend is serious about your work, she will get other customers, you will throw parties, it will become a social phenomena and you will end up selling more work as word of mouth.

In theory. Are you a charismatic "party motivator" is your friend?

We are talking about making rain - and there are many variables.

How "strong" is the work?

You could go for as much as you think your friend will pay - you need it! Do not negotiate - this will make the price seem arbitrary. Come prepared with arguments - you need the work for a show, you really like the work in question - it helps you in the studio, its one of a kind...you need paint supplies, your mother is sick...etcetera...

Or you could offer her one for free, and then apologetically say you are asking 1000 for the one that took you a while (its like what $10/hr after overhead, right?)

And 500 for the other one.

These are reasonable prices after all.

Above all, do not "lend" the work - and I argue against payments in installments less than half the ticket price -installments tend to dry up or get misplaced in the hurly-burly of vacations in St. Tropez, day trading losses, the vicissitudes of taste and mood.

Good luck!

jpegCritic said...

sell sell sell.

Why' were off topic,
does anyone know how
well clove oil works to
combat the fast drying time
of paint layers in ny summers?
In the past I got slimed by it
and swore it off as bad magic.

zipthwung said...

i never had that problem dude. I mean one idea is to spread some oil (poppyseed or whatever) on the surface to give you that easy feeling - but as I say, I'd use dryers before retarders.

They reccomend using a slower drying oil over some additive - what are you using for a medium?

I like the "Galkyd(TM)" medium as I am lazy, but it does tend to be a bit brittle - probably only want to paint on panels to be safe. I like the feel of canvas - the tooth - but I hate the sag and the drag, even on a well stretched surface with rabbit skin glue and etcetera. Plus its about as cheap if not cheaper. Get a plunge router to clean up the edges for ~$50 and a reciprocating saw or skilsaw or what have you. And a drill of course. And some angle clamps. Hell, get a radial arm saw to replace the miter box or stop going to the store because that's for amateurs. or order out custom if you are a star allready. Hit go wild.

I mean that's my two dents.

jpegCritic said...

That makes sense.
Once I spread eugenol all over me
cuz I liked the smell so much and
then I got numb all over, and felt
so retarded.

Non amateurs call clove oil
oil of clove. Users and sniffers
prefer the more hard-core
eugenol stuff.

jpegCritic said...

I use alkyd based medium and
lead whites for lower layers
... stand/poppy for upper, with
thinner application. Then for
more adhesion or flex if needed,
a bit of venice turp to medium.
No damar anymore, since it dries fast.

A lot of iron oxides, manganese
and Adderall XR based pigments in my
paint speeds drying immensely.
Switching from senellier white to
rembrandt white seemed to help.

zipthwung said...

Yeah the drying time is an issue with me too - I started using flash while I waited for a painting to dry - I'm still not 100% dry and I developed and allergy to flash - something in the medium. I'm goign to switch to FCP for the wet into wet feel and forget the CSS. It's too harsh - I developed an allergy to that too.

Where do you get the adderall CX? How's the cohesion on that?

jpegCritic said...

I get it Open Source man.
Try jQuery it's like js and css on steriods.
Scripting makes you feel like a god.
Use javascript with your after effects.
It's hippy-trippy. All the work is in your mind.
I myself can't get my head around it.
HTML 5 will have an in-memory database.
So long, stateless world!

zipthwung said...

Thanks, I was studying tableless CSS design but I got side tracked. Same with actionscript. I need to know how to make a flikr or photobucket based xml/php gallery. And an email response form in php or whatever. In actionscript Its all 3.0 so i got to figure out some shit -

or forget it and go video but its an apprenticeship model right? I mean what isn't? Unless I work formyself.

, but I'm into AfterEffects and the whip tool works pretty well to link layer attributes (like rotating or shaking around a "null" layer based on the null's keyframe's or scripts - I google the scripts.

"Processing" seems cool - another can of worms.

I just called for a job assisting in decorative wall painting while I develop my skill set. I mean I know some Maya too.

Mac Pro is going to change my life man, I can feel it.

jpegCritic said...

Video would be the best bet for job longevity,
but then GPUs are a hell of a lot more
expensive than free copies of Apache and

Problem is, coding skillz are mere commodity,
so one day, all coding will happen overseas for
as little as buck per app. As such 1 kolinsky
brush will cost you several hundred lines of code.
It's wrong, i tell you. India never really had a
substantial painting culture until the afghan
mughals came raiding thru. And then the flowering
of the 2-haired-brush paintings. You can still
find hand-painted replicas of rajasthani paintings,
painted by real rajasthanis for 14 bucks, on 77th
and Columbus. Gotta love globalism.

zipthwung said...

Yeah that mini stuff is good. I like purples and greens with the oranges and earth tones. Its a good pleasing palette. Not like this turner natualistic pallette- I grew up looking at grey, just like the english I think, only the clouds seemed to scrape the trees.

I always was retarded and never bought the good small brushes - or left them in the turps. my bad. I'm gonna get some new ones - used to use the cheap synthetics from the hobby store - you can trim them down to points or whatever.

I dont like chalky grounds but I don't like smooth either - and stretching linen seems like make work.

I used to use acrylic gesso like an amateur - so I need to do some cooking if I'm going to hit the sweet spot - definitely need some good tweeters and a sub woofer. I'm stoked.

Yes, video seems like the way to go - though I will mourn the loss of my web skills that atrophy with lack of use and the advance of time and technology. I mean I forgot how my preloader works in the span of a few months.

ungoogleable said...

Thanks zipthwung sound advice indeed. All three pieces are strong minus critical accolades of course haha. The prices you mentioned were in my ballpark as well. Great site Painter by the way. Is there a page for general questions and random arts discussion? I can't seem to find a smart one. Don't mention Saatchi please. That's a zoo/mental asylum.

ungoogleable said...

Oh can we make the comment window draggable? It's a bit too small. (That's what she said...) Thanks

webthing said...

It's draggable depending on your browser i think un. camino works for me, safari doesn't. I don't know of any other art discuss, maybe the pole vault on 8/8/08.

Anyone got a dollr

a good pilsy beer is great for the codec

i'm tired of the

it's time for the


cancelled erased removed

No Rush said...

slave to the rhythm of the corporate prison i'd charge her no more than 500 each

No Rush said...

oh hey i didnt see page 2. but zip you cant charge more for one the same size just cuz it took longer. dont u know that?

webthing said...

time = money


idea = money


money = money


webthing said...

you know a lot of people watch a film they like twice, or more. it explains everything.

zipthwung said...

Good points.

What says low, friendly, like a group show and priced to move?

500 but throw one in for free. About the same price, different structure. Win win.

Like a good stick of antiperspirant - personally I can't stand the stuff just makes you sweat more. Go with deodorant and arrive early at Starbucks to cool down.


If you are liquid, you feel liquid.

If you feel it, they will too.

Offer your Feng Shui services and since you are friends, bring the laser level, cordless makita and a bottle of white bourdeaux to celebrate.

Or would that be a faux pas? I am of engineer stock so I tend to miss my manners.

zipthwung said...

Savignon Blanc. I'm just going by what I read in the NYT. Theres a cheap bottle of drinkable Cavit brand pinot grigio - from italy. I mean its not exactly extravagant.

webthing said...

have u sold before?

if no, start low.

if yes, increase on prior by a little.

that's the rulez/

stick to it and be fine.


zipthwung said...

remember to rewind.

zipthwung said...

You could give them a piece to sell at auction, then have another friend buy it (you can give them the money just do it in cash to be safe). This will fix the price - you can point to the auction when you sell pieces to strangers.

Then you can insure the paintings and get a loan based on the equity or whatever.

Take out an ad in Art in America - most people off the street won't notice its just a laminated tear sheet you are showing them and not a legitimate review. Talk fast.

Feel free to chime in - I don't have friends like that or the money for an a full page ad.

CAP said...

‘One of the unhappy occurrences that painters sometimes experience is cleavage, a technical term that describes the kind of cracking in which the paint detaches itself from the ground or underpaint and drops off in flakes. It can happen to seemingly well-painted examples, and present a baffling problem to painters, but on going over the details of their technique, they can usually attribute the lack of adhesion to some point where the normal functions of the drying oil have been rendered ineffective…

The addition of some of the essential oils used by some artists to delay the drying of their paints between working periods has been stated to cause serious interference with normal drying reactions, but more investigations will have to be made to determine just how much damage this would do under the average conditions of easel painting. The general consensus is that the most durable paints of any type are those that go through their drying process in a normally prompt and undisturbed manner.’

Ralph Mayer – The Artist’s Handbook pp 470-471

A number of de Kooning's canvases have suffered just such 'cleavage' - later attributed by the embarrassed artist to too much 'oil of cleaves' (his term).

flesheater99 said...

This article sums precisely what I felt I wanted to say about Turner before and after seeing the show. Peter puts it more to the fore..

Peter Schjeldahl

July 28 2008

From the New Yorker...

The huge J. M. W. Turner retrospective at the Met is no relaxing summer show. Hot and bothersome, it is a barrage of guileful effects, surveying the artist�s lifelong campaign to surprise and impress�when not shocking and awing�British sensibility. Indisputably masterful, Turner invested little watercolors of quotidian subjects with tonal sparkle, and bombastic battle and disaster canvases with lyrical dash. But unlike John Constable, his quieter, more profound peer, Turner conveys only irritable ambition. We must never forget to admire him. This tires. Turner�s style is synthetic, leaning on picturesque convention (never more so than when most nearly abstract) while brazening arbitrary audacities. He overlays splooshes of paint with passages of tidy drawing like bathtub decals. He did not anticipate Impressionism, which would submerge drawing in painting. William Hazlitt cited a view of his work as �pictures of nothing, and very like.� Actually, it is a congeries of misty, fiery, surfy, sunset stunts�an art less to contemplate than to talk about, calculated to jazz the talkiest of nations. Turner was the Damien Hirst of his day. ♦

jpegCritic said...

Thanks cap -- especially for the
de kooning anecdote! Dunno how
you found it, but had I had that
knowledge, I would've avoided such
cleavage in the past.

Actually, I had only one episode
of the bad cleavage. I surmised I was a virgin
to the technique and had thus applied too
much of the oil. As a result it did indeed
interfere with the normal functions.

However, I haven't found overwhelmingly
negative feedback on the use -- compared
to say, the use of bitumen for example.
To be safe, I'll stay away from the oil to
avoid bad cleavage.

It's hard though, with these hot summers.

CAP said...

The DeK reference is extrapolating a little. Certain of his canvases have definitely suffered from his playing chemist and his reaction really was “How embarrassing!” – but, especially in the 50s, practically everyone was fiddling with the recipe – bulking up and thinning down solutions – encaustics, lacquers, enamels, acrylics. My favorite is Dubuffet’s inclusion of shoe polish.

DeK learned the cloves retarder tip from Cedar Bar regular Landès Lewitin – I learned it from Harry F Gaugh’s book on DeK. But later on he mixed in some safflower oil, drops of benzine, kerosene and water, for a while (also from Gaugh). So it’s hard to say with any certainty just which ingredient failed soonest.

And it might not really matter – so long as you know what’s at stake. Look at the stuff Kiefer piles on -they’re not a long term proposition obviously, but I gather he’s not bothered.

I have some sympathy for needing more time as well. When I first started, one of my main objections to acrylics over oils was that – even with acrylic retarders – oils allowed me more time to work at modeling or blending areas. Later on, on my grand tour of the commercial and applied ghetto, I ended up learning how to just paint really fast (it’s just repetition and routine really – day in, day out, month in, month out, year in etc…) so time ceased to be an issue in that way and then because everyone needed the jobs yesterday I ended up becoming more closely acquainted with acrylics and some helpful industrial chemists/brand reps – who were almost always German for some reason…

Anyway, when in doubt I still go back to my ancient edition of Mayer – I keep promising myself to update, but I never quite get round to it. An on-line Mayer would be ace. Maybe I’ll go and look for one.

webthing said...

well said cap.

how we fight against entropy, reminds me of my friend sisyphus

CAP said...

Yeah 'the center does not hold'. And the corners aren't looking too flash either.

zipthwung said...

fail upward

jpegCritic said...

was the Damien Hirst of his day.

jpegCritic said...

hey Cap, I heard once that in the layers of
Turner's paint, traces of opium were found.
Is that heresay or my bad memory?

Was it true he tied himself to the bow of a ship?

I'm considering imax for viewing the latest

Emersion. Emulsion. I'm into emulsified experiences.

zipthwung said...

Imax is a good choice.

I need two people to wait together in line for me this Sunday August 10 starting at 7:30am. Ideally you will have a friend/partner/cousin (18 or older) who will join you. I would rather avoid having to pair together you with a stranger as the logistics would be a hassle.

I will pay $50 per person - $100 for the gig. The entire gig will last about 6 hours.

Contact me for further details and please specify if you are alone or if you have someone with you to do it together.


Halo of Flies said...

Is this for like The Unsane Reformed gig?

CAP said...

Can’t say about the dope Jpeg. It’s been years since I read anything on JMWT. Although it sounds possible. I’ve heard the story of his being lashed down in order to witness a storm without being washed overboard, but I thought it was to the mast rather than the bow, but I might be getting him mixed up with Tales of Brave Ulysses.

I do remember the story of Ruskin, when executor of Turner’s will, destroying 100s of erotic drawings and watercolors, fearing they would harm ‘The Master’s’ reputation. Apparently Turner owned a controlling share in a brothel in the East End and was pretty much a regular. Naturally he always had a sketchpad and pencil with him…

Actually they probably would have been disappointing, but sort of fascinating, given that his whole style shrinks the figure into squirming masses, retreats into the mist. Would have been interesting to see just what he did when things got up close and personal.

As to the Damien Hirst call, this seems way off.

Schjeldahl claims the style is ‘synthetic, leaning on picturesque convention, never more so than when most nearly abstract’ – I defy him to cite anyone as precedent on this point. Who exactly took things as abstractly as Turner before him? The picturesque convention actually forks into Classicists and Romantics – order and disorder, basically. The Romantics go for wilderness, the unpredictable or freakish – ‘sublime’ in Burke’s original sense.

Did Turner overdo it anymore than Gericault or Delacroix? More to the point, how does JMWT stack up to the stormy landscapes of Loutherberg or Volaire, say? He certainly took things more abstractly, whether that made them wilder, is moot. But was he just a calculating showman and entrepreneur? – which seems to be Schjeldahl’s real objection. Well if you look at the scale of this one, which is one of his larger pictures – 57” X 93” I think – it’s actually fairly modest for the times. Sure he had his own gallery, but ‘four-walling’ was all they had outside of the Academy or salons. Courbet for example went for this giant marquee deal in order to exhibit himself to best advantage, which is to say when surrounded only by his own work.

And when you compare Turner with someone like John Martin, he was practically a shrinking violet. Martin did epic allegorical landscapes like The Great Day of His Wrath – best known now for Glenn Brown’s parody – and at 77” X 119” is still at the small end of his scale. He actually took his more expansive epics on tour, all over the UK and the US, again with a special marquee, charging for admission and making a fortune. Even at the time he was reviled by the art establishment, pretty much in the same way as Hirst, and I submit is a far better parallel.

The thing with Turner, especially the later ones, is that they really couldn’t get much bigger, because he simply wouldn’t be able to sustain his technique on a vaster scale. They’re actually keyed to certain brushstrokes, and a certain hand, and that kind of reliance on the artist’s touch I think is the antithesis of Martin and Hirst, certainly a severe constraint on the kind of opportunism and showmanship Schjeldahl detects.

webthing said...

caps on fire

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
No Rush said...

Someone put him out.

I guess if you ignore irony completely, you could compare turner, martin and hirst. but why would you? Hirst turns Turner on his ear, wot? Cap's drivel I can understand but Scheldahl gets paid for this?

zipthwung said...

obviously i don;t know them

No Rush said...

i'm in love...

Strategies. Personally, i work the subculture strategy along with the working class strategy. Rather dull, but i can have some fun with it. Enjoy the quirks as it were.

Yet, I have to love those who take their twist right up to the capilalists's face, beat them at their own game as it were--the warhols, koons and hirsts. they give us a good larf and they are heroes.

You didn't actually think Andy LIKED Liza Minelli, did you?

zipthwung said...

There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy.
Engrave this quote in Our Store! | Rate this Quote! | Tell a Friend

-Henry Miller

zipthwung said...

Warning to

I have reinstated

Historical Miscellaneous Facts - In the late 1800s, the Kappa Call, Ai Korai Athenes! (The Maidens of Athena!), was introduced. It is still practiced in some chapters today.

If you remove it again, I will request you to be blocked. Furthermore, I suggest that you sign in with a name. If my additions to this page continue to be removed, then I will begin to add things such as the hazing incident at DePauw, the Kappa chapter being kicked off the University of Maryland campus for drugs, the fact that a member of the Symbionese Liberation Army was a Kappa. I hope that I have made myself clear. - jf

you have been warned

No Rush said...

Is it Miller time?

The tragedy of it is that nobody sees the look of desperation on my face. Thousands and thousands of us, and we're passing one another without a look of recognition.
--Henry Miller

One man's Voltaire is another man's Screech.
--Dennis Miller

webthing said...

“Africa is everything that something like classical music isn’t. Classical—perhaps I should say “orchestral”—music is so digital, so cut up, rhythmically, pitchwise and in terms of the roles of the musicians. It’s all in little boxes. The reason you get child prodigies in chess, arithmetic, and classical composition is that they are all worlds of discontinuous, parceled-up possibilities. And the fact that orchestras play the same thing over and over bothers me. Classical music is music without Africa. It represents old-fashioned hierarchical structures, ranking, all the levels of control. Orchestral music represents everything I don’t want from the Renaissance: extremely slow feedback loops.


CAP said...

Orchestral music has changed a lot since the 15th century. Different instruments, better maths (Bach!)different occasions.

When you get sick of listening to Vivaldi or Corelli you can go back to Hildegard von Bingen and notice how restless western music has been.

jpegCritic said...

I once heard a recording of Issac Perlman
play a Sibelius concerto...

It offended me.

I once heard Sarah Silverman recite Rilke.
No i didn't but the thought of it made
me want to bang her.

Hillary Hahn needs to get some go-go soul.
But she's perfect for Sibelius, but wouldn't
touch her with a ten-foot pole, cuz she
can't play tchaikovsky cuz she has no sense
of humor. And Perlman is such a genius at

I had an album of Charlie parker playing
the same fuckin song for umteen tracks.
That's not genius, that's highdom.

On the part of the producers.

Naturally I threw that shit out along with
the shake.

I once saw some paintings of vases and shit,
painted by the same painter over and over
and fukin over again. Dope.

Drinking tea-of-root.
Carving masks
Killing people
Birds crickets

That god dammed sun.

And she tells the same story to them
over and over and over again.
As if they have some memory
problem or learning disability.
And they always pretend like
it's their first time hearing it.


No Rush said...

we're all in little boxes, called bodies, minds. africans, and others, know how to get it all together, for a few moments.

u gotta get that new set of art pepper at the village vanguard, with all the takes. it's inspiring, fascinating and totally belies caps idiot assertion that improv is not spontaneous. obviously c.parker phoned it in sometimes, but mr pepper did not, at least on these dates. yes, drugs were involved.

my brats are almost growed up, smashing fenders, burning up engines. expensive. we are laughing about all those books we read, they want me to keep them for posterity. their favorite was this one called the happy hocky family which mocked the repetitive kid book format as well as the happy family concept. sarcasm is congenital.

zipthwung said...

┗┫━━ ┃ ━━┣┛ ┣┫ 
 ┃ ━━━━━ ┃┏┳┫┣┳┓ 
 ┗━━┳━┳━━ ┃   ┃ 
━━━━┃ ┃   ┗━┳┳━┛ 
┗┫━━ ┃ ━━┣┛ ┣┫ 
 ┃ ━━━━━ ┃┏┳┫┣┳┓ 
 ┗━━┳━┳━━ ┃   ┃ 
━━━━┃ ┃   ┗━┳┳━┛ 
━━━━┃ ┗━━━━━━┛┃

zipthwung said...

Da beeze

No Rush said...

My black president

zipthwung said...


webthing said...

sittin' on the blog of the bay...


CAP said...

Which old master would you most like to see next in a blockbuster?

Could limit it to 19th century, bearing in mind Daumier and Corot have had recent outings, Is it time for Delacroix or Constable?

Who would fit well in these troubled times?

No Rush said...

So this long and dissolute post hasn't disabused you of the notion that the "old masters" are relevent to these "troubled times"? OK then--realism, hard work and fat over lean it is! Woo hoo.

jeff f said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
No Rush said...

this is a good one

rmut said...

potentially: But for the biggest, potentially ruinous, buys of our lives, most of us are poorly advised lambs ready to be fleeced.
largely: Now largely ruinous, the south gate still shows the slot for the portcullis on the west side.
very: There is a clear entrance, flanked by an outer protective work, now very ruinous.
so: A structure in the countryside that is so ruinous that it has to be substantially or entirely re-built will not be suitable.
now: Toward Castle The castle now ruinous was the principal castle of the Lamont family.
almost: By 1887 the church was in an almost ruinous condition.
Preposition: for

jpegCritic said...

But i'm still good on credit, right?


zipthwung said...

Looking for a place to grow marijuana and live, rent-free, in a cave with all the creature comforts of home? Why not a canyon, tucked away within the 40 square miles of the nation's top-secret nuclear weapons research facility in Los Alamos?

-a passing reference-to the once fashionable Victorian (I think) trend for nobles to ensconce hermits on their property and to rely on the hermits for guidance.

For some months he remained at El Obeid, consolidating his
dominion. In a series of circular letters, he described his
colloquies with the Almighty and laid down the rule of living
which his followers were to pursue. The faithful, under pain of
severe punishment, were to return to the ascetic simplicity of
ancient times. A criminal code was drawn up, meting out
executions, mutilations, and floggings with a barbaric zeal. The
blasphemer was to be instantly hanged, the adulterer was to be
scourged with whips of rhinoceros hide, the thief was to have his

right hand and his left foot hacked off in the marketplace.
No more were marriages to be celebrated with pomp and feasting,
more was the youthful warrior to swagger with flowing hair;
henceforth, the believer must banquet on dates and milk, and his
head must be kept shaved. Minor transgressions were punished by
confiscation of property or by imprisonment and chains. But the
rhinoceros whip was the favourite instrument of chastisement. Men

were flogged for drinking a glass of wine, they were flogged for
smoking; if they swore, they received eighty lashes for every
expletive; and after eighty lashes it was a common thing to die.
Before long, flogging grew to be so everyday an incident that the

young men made a game of it, as a test of their endurance of

No Rush said...

i used to know so many people who lived illegally on govt land. hey that reminds me its somebodys birthday. Love you G.

zipthwung said...

DO you think they found bigfoot?

The kitchen floor was rotted. Heavy, brown stains covered both toilets. There were anthills under a mattress in the master bedroom. Roaches freely roamed the inside of the refrigerator, and maggots owned the stove.

There were several piles of trash, including one reaching the laundry room ceiling and a mound of Diet Mountain Dew bottles between a recliner and the living room couch. Tufts of human hair were scattered on the kitchen floor among bags of fetid trash.

No Rush said...

speaks of a kind of power that is at once pandering, slippery and impenetrable; of a public eager to see its own reflection in the architecture, rhetoric and spectacle of power; and of an addiction to a certain combination of bling and authoritarianism — call it flashism

No Rush said...

Because here is the thing. I did acid at age 16. So now you know. I don't recommend it. It left me crippled in certain ways. But I saw the whole damn thing in a flash. I knew then how it's all connected and buzzing. That never left me. I am in no doubt about the fundamentals: This thing we are living in is indeed an engine of massively complex figurations and energy, and we are indeed simply flashes, moments, and we are indeed hooked up to the big machine. There's no doubt of this in my mind: I have glimpsed this. I have glimpsed this thing that yogis glimpse and Huxley glimpsed. Did it fix me? No. Glimpsing it didn't fix me. I still went on to feel the full complement of human anxiety and pride and secretiveness and addiction and compulsion. But when I was ready, I had this reservoir of early mystical experience to fall back on. I knew that if I could work backward from the manifestations of my anxiety, backward from my many compulsions, backward from booze and speed and cruelty and ego and cocaine and power and secretiveness, backward from pride, if I could sit on the knife edge of the moment and not move forward into more distractions but stay with the phenomenon, if I could sit in that raging fire long enough just breathing and letting the chaos wash over me, if I could stay in the buzzing of hornets and the disintegration of the ego, if I could just sit there long enough, I could get to know all my fears and I could stop reaching for relief and distraction. I could just sit with it.

hobo said...

Haven't been to the show yet. The late paintings are really hit or miss for me, often lacking a weight or some sort of definition to make the expanse (and vision) meaningful. I always appreciate the late paintings more when seeing some of the earlier work. The meaning changes in that context and the duds of the late paintings are more acceptable somehow. Incredibly talented painter.

zipthwung said...

You buy furniture. You tell yourself, this is the last sofa I will ever need in my life. Buy the sofa, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your sofa issue handled. Then the right set of dishes. Then the perfect bed. The drapes. The rug. Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you. There were Persian rugs and chandeliers; the fireplace mantle had pictures of Sebastian wearing a suit as a child. On his parents’ armoire sat a set of old keys and a couple of grams of coke for anyone who might be interested. I felt sad for him, for having all of these assholes in his house who made fun of him for making peach Cosmos. He was an empty trust-fund hipster in his parents’ mansion where all the literary kids came to play.

jpegCritic said...

But The Lord said:
Go to the Devil...

So I ran to the Devil.

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No Rush said...

why race is irrelevant in
this election: because it obscures the fact that it is the rich (black yellow brown and white) who oppress the poor(black yellow brown and white). until people understand this, they will be divided and conquered and continue to be useful idiots to the two percent who are in power.

Water Comic Paintings said...

That painting is one of my favorite at the show. Very strong with natural presence of the darkness surrounding the light.

jpegCritic said...

nice work waterboy

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Water Comic Paintings said...

it's one of my favorites at the show. Natural presence of contrast, that sounds like a deal!

Water Comic Paintings said...


webthing said...

encore une fois,

good pieces.

remember to paint not draw.

keep it fake,

surfaces have never stayed the same

but to act on them: has.

kasey said...

is this broken or something?

zipthwung said...

on hiatus man.

all that glitters is not gold, if you know what I mean. You can't walk through the same river twice and don;t ever ever cross the beams.

CAP said...

What do you get when you cross a river with a beam?

No Rush said...

smoke on the water?
blinded by the light?
dick in a box?

to press said...

if you sat down for as long as you walked for you'd catch up with yourself brudda


have you lost a shoe?

bof! c'est pas terrible...

jpegCritic said...

|____.._..,,±- ±__|
damn voodoo doll

No Rush said...

total protonic reversal - idont know - sounds like fun

jpegCritic said...

so low it's high.

Anna said...


zipthwung said...

9/1- Big Trouble in Little China
9/2- The Thing
9/3- They Live
9/4- Escape from New York

No Rush said...

my cousin john looks exactly like kurt russell. he always has, ever since he was a little boy--and kurt was a little boy-star. computer wore tennis shoes, you know.

anytime my cousin kisses me hello, i pretend im kissing kurt russell.

No Rush said...

but john carpenter is like if george romero went to state school. and cronenberg is like if he went to university.

zipthwung said...

The bomb misinterprets Doolittle's phenomonology and believes itself to be God. He explodes as Pinback and Boiler die instantly, Commander Powell flies through space in a large chunk of ice, Talby drifts off into the Phoenix Asteroids to die and circle the universe, and Doolittle surfs down to the unstable planet on a piece of debris to burn up in the atmosphere. In his book The Road from Los Alamos, Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602, showing that ignition of the atmosphere was impossible, not just unlikely.[7] In Serber's account, Oppenheimer mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who "didn't have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington" which led to the question being "never laid to rest".[8]

No Rush said...

_Pray for a man in the middle / One that talks like Doolittle

to press said...

"Distinguishing the virtual from the real is a major error on the part of human beings. To me, the birth and death of a human being is already a virtual event," the 52-year-old director told a news conference at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival. "I think that accepting that what we are seeing is not real will open the doors of truth for mankind," he added.


webthing said...

to press are you my echo

to press said...

i am you webthing

webthing said...


zipthwung said...

ere i am

zipthwung said...

An aerial wolf-gunning team typically consists of two people—one to fly the plane, and one to shoot the animals. Former crop sprayers tend to make good pilots because they are used to flying close to the ground. Airborne hunters tend to fly single-engine Super Cub planes at very low speeds and at altitudes of less than 100 feet—sometimes swooping down to 10 to 15 feet above the ground.

zipthwung said...

im watching the RNC and I keep wishing they were chanting USB, USB.

Im into fast busses.

No Rush said...

how do you like that voice on sarah palin?

No Rush said...

she makes hillary sound like serge gainsbourg

zipthwung said...

i am reminded of helium.

read my manifesto

No Rush said...

im a feminist for life

No Rush said...

Anybody see Chris Johanson Totalities last night? What you think? Any pics of the new work up online anywhere? Deitch website does not deliver...

zipthwung said...

i had shit to do.

clueless editorializing but pictures nonetheless.

maybe ill check it out. gotta get past the hype tough. blech.

No Rush said...

gracias you are so polite

well not to paddy but thanks for finding that

i can't see NYers buying this stuff. and by buying, i dont mean purchasing. the meaning is too non-heirarchical, too non-art. im finding it pretty fascinating for this day & age.

like the abstraction, in this context. as it should be, because really mondrion, pollock, deK, etc were not the elitists they are sometimes made out to be.

Dimo Java-lee said...

What amazing collection of artists here.
I want to invite to look my work,
I have a space consecrated to the image in the contemporary societies:

Apuntes Críticos

Dimo Java-lee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dimo Java-lee said...

What amazing collection of artists here.
I want to invite to look my work:
I have a space consecrated to the image in the contemporary societies:
Apuntes Críticos

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zipthwung said...

infinite space - like the waterfalls (are they a reference to the Fuggs "DOnt go chasing waterfalls?" THat would be a pop masterpiece)- phenomena(logical) - and sort of trippy. Must see at night. Must not use brain. Must be ON something.

It reminds me too much of being a kid and not having TV. I hate thinking for myself, without any fallback plan, as you know. Hierarchies let you sort of figure out the scheme - like wearing the same thing every day so thats a decision you dont have to make - lots of people come up with that one. THe king has two bodies, as they say.

There was a psycho killer who only wore green. Chuck "Fight Club" Palawhatsis came up with IKEA. The Nazis loved their uniforms.

Regardless, i think Deitch is as hierarchical and elitist as you need to be - call it old money or new money or other peoples money - whatever - in the fire islands of life there are many beaches. These sorts of class and taste definitions are collapsed into sand -- a more nebulous invisible silicon wall where you can talk to people on their terms but never ever on your own. An island chain, perhaps an artificial one off the coast of the UAE.

Thats the sort of fake fripery that goes on in 90210 - soon I will be graduating, though I need one more credit in helicopter class.

Chris Johansen is too easy to be conceptual, too slacker to be academic, not really Urban.

I place him in the faux finished halls of Versailles - above the real wood and marble paneling where only the eye matters.

But im more into german minimalism with teutonic comfort and scottish scotch. WHats a good speaker system for my hi-fi? I need studio quality sound at a bargain price, if ye kin that.

No Rush said...

“You’re born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you’re up in the rarefied atmosphere and you’ve forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake son.”

No Rush said...

in the name o the wee man!

jack hanley, deitch or the sun king. im not so interested in them. doesnt seem that the artist is either. that be my point.

my eye is so close to my brain, they are friendly, not at odds

i dont know why, but i either like great technique or i like mocking technique. let's just not be in the middle.

i like someone else to work the speakers. i'll pay to hear it. like the surf band i saw in pacifica last night. (poor mans stinson beach) the mayor of pacifica is even more handsome than gavin, who knew?

webthing said...

he should've called the show YEAH UM KINDA and then i would have loved it. he should've pulled up from 15ft, stop and pop, and drained it. but what he did was ok. posturing. nectar.

are they for rcrdng

We have more than 1100 Keira Knightley images said...

Johanson believes that life is a series of actions and projects. That is why he makes many things in many media: painting, sculpture, installation, film, video, music, writing, bands. He likes to collaborate with friends and strangers. Johanson explains that he likes to look at the little pictures in life as well as the big picture. A smile is just as important to him as a cosmic question about the nature of god.



webthing said...

y'air, i here the guy....


earnestness is nice

muted pastels also

fun times at ridgemont high

surfing is radical

it really is

irony sucks

sincerity is tied to the ironic

for protection, for layering

a rea; shame, but thnk fk fr mre dmsnsns


how about yes, guten

but faux juvenile

be a woman, be a man

childlike energy in adultland is cool


artists can play the folly, insight

but what about the wisdum

part of the big pie in the sky

the spirit of arrrrrt he carried it ok

i hear it

im glad

it's hard to be easy for most

there r many wayz 2

i need a little more counter blnce darc

to be under the spell


zipthwung said...

grandmaster flash

you know, don;t cross the beams bro. no no no
i dont dream
the universe is bigger than my inseam
but I got legs
do you have legs?
I bet a million dollars you
luh luh luh la legs.
eggs and ham are two of a kind
but under the sheetts
they might start to ryme
bacon and flakin at the holliday inn
cambodia's got good weather but I think I'll
go to Curenevaca
dont drink the water cuz its full of caca
montezuma was a dude with a lot of balls
got his revenge
now theres blood on the walls
helter skelter
what a beautifull loser
I bet he was a namby pamby boozer
fee fi fo fum nail it to the wall with a spud gun
talkin small potatoes
tornadoes and hurricaines
rotting food like ergot grain
Trippin n bitchin and skippin and slippin like discipline is not just a routine
gotta do something to make them green
in comes tom thumb:

yo wassup i got flava for your neighbor put a plum on your 9 1 1

No Rush said...

Žižek’s metaphysics is a non-metaphysics in that his would not support a total system to describe the universe since the universe, as a natural entity, is fundamentally barred, it is not-all. Events emerge from the cracks and fissures in ontology itself allowing, as Johnston explains it, flecks of eternity to rupture the normal flow of time.

Transcendental material designates the process by which a dialectical process creates an errancy which can not be smoothly reabsorbed into the dialectic, into the chaos which birthed it. A transcendentally materialist ontogenesis of the subject would claim that we emerge from a chaotic nebula to take functional shape and that this emergence is not simply a delusion of the chaos, an epiphenomenon, since the consequences of its emergence change and are simultaneously changed by the material base.

What makes Žižek important is the simple fact that he approaches the topic of subjectivity and freedom (among other issues) by using psychoanalysis as a lense to examine German Idealism, and that this analysis allows for, and even encourages, a theory of the subject that takes into account but manages to narrowly escape, the scientifically fueled determinism of our age.

zipthwung said...


webthing said...

they're gonna fire it up tomorrow. the largest machine in the history of mankind. they're going to smash matter, to find what matter is made of. the rocky balboa particle. like apes with stones. it'll change our life in relation to energy. tomorrow.

johanson has worked very hard on that cave wall if you look without askance. you peel it off for a second, then you put it back on. coz once it's off EVERYTHING is amazing.

webthing said...

histori making
is a

zipthwung said...

After a series of random earthquakes, Earth would start to crack up; molten lava would wash over the land and the seas would start to boil; mega-hurricanes and cyclones would level buildings and forests; eventually, mountains would crumble as Earth's crust continued to disintegrate, according to one doomsday senario.

In the other, Earth would be destroyed in an instant (about 1/20th of a second), simply vanishing from space. Less than two seconds later, the moon would allegedly follow.

Eight minutes later, the sun would be ripped apart, followed by the rest of the planets in the solar system and onwards, a wave of destruction caused by a rent in the fabric of space itself, spreading out from our world at the speed of light.

No Rush said...

versailles or subway sandwiches, they all decorate the interior completely.

what im interested in is how he re-presents the drawings and paintings on these weird wooden frames, just pulled up around a central something. like they are highway signs shoved together in a closet. hard to apprehend and an interesting challenge

also interested in the jerry rigged quality of the things he makes and presents

zipthwung said...

The pump don't work
'Cause the vandals took the handles

or the sandals

Chaos, control. Chaos, control. You like you like?

There does seem to be something of a painted (or raw) scrap wood movement going on. Guess no one learned to use a rasp.

oh and this

and this

No Rush said...

well, duh. (except the digital router, that doesnt apply) but this is different than all that.

this shit is all shoved together around the center. and not facing YOU. not to mention multi rainbow colored, as in any old color no system. dig?

zipthwung said...

yeah i know who needs a history lesson.

I think it's "mistake paint" from wherever.

I dig re-purposed lumber earth ship mud brick bottles and cans and just clap your hands.

Road trippin to the arizona highway.

69-70 build that car one part at a time.

But uther than that, this dude's got nothin on the zomb.

No Rush said...

yea who do you think u are CAP?

DIY always works, but it's good to have a gun under the mattress for emergencies. and maybe a lawyer. just ask my kid, he just spent 4 days in jail for shrooms in the trunk.

dont know who the zomb is

zipthwung said...

everybody going to do the zombie against the updo

that's the word because that's what I'm saying.

Shrooms are most excellent. I wish I had some. I mean but they are bad for you. Bad. Bad. Bad.

What ya gonna do with all that junk.


HAPPENS said...

zomb = quo


rock rock rock

rock around the clock

is illustration painting?

is painting sushi?

is hippy phase?

is hand made fear?

is prefab prefab?

is faux faux?

oh yeah!!!

i aint scared of losing the 'humanness' in everything

i aint scared no, i'm frickin petrified but that's electric forya//////

HAPPENS said...

arguably, it's pretty much impossible for ANYTHING AT ALL to be inorganic. seen this way, a kind of holistic opens up and everything is part of it - meaning there's no need to pretend to be afraid of 'things without hearts'. if nature didn't make them, we did. in that way, we don't know our own god but at least they'll know theirs, and in a way we'll share the mystery.

i'd rather someone put something in a gallery and try to convince me that a human DIDN'T have something to do with it, somewhere down the line...isn't it bloody obvious no matter what it is in between those white medico walls that one of us obviously put it in there?

if you wanna talk about making skate ramps as a child coz you couldn't afford a space rocket, so your uncle repurposed a cardboard box, the magic of punk ethos, then that's cool really, it's a bit cute, but showing traces of the 'handmade' deliberately just to imply life is too thin for the x-ray.

but on another level, the artist is a messy type who just wants it slapped up there any old how and then pinocchio can wiggle his legs in the cosmos while his nose grows towards japan.

is it better to walk in to johansen's cosmic shanty (or any one of the other dudes) or a superfinished mariko mori /murakami/hirst type assisted by advanced industry enviro?

none is better. but we risk losing a voice if the only one's who can speak are those who know factories... so we need em both.



it's a passage for most, just because that's where they are now doesn't mean they aren't in motion to somewhere else.

CAP said...


HAPPENS said...

---beautiful loser anthem---

HAPPENS said...

---one last hit---

No Rush said...

zombie or a pussywhipped eskimo?

No Rush said...

Zombies are OK, if theyre good lookin. My favorite zombie.

No Rush said...


For millions of years, In millions of homes
A man loved a woman, A child it was born
It learned how to hurt and it learned how to cry
Like Humans Do
I'm breathin in
I'm breathin out
So slip inside this funky house
Dishes in the sink
The TV's in repair
Don't look at the floor
Don't go up the stairs

I'm achin
I'm shakin
I'm breakin
Like Humans Do

I work & I sleep & I dance & I'm dead
I'm eatin, I'm laughin & I'm lovin myself
We're eatin off plates & and we kiss with our tongue
Like Humans Do

I'm breathin in
I'm breathin out
So slip inside this funky house
Dishes in the sink
The TV's in repair
Don't look at the floor
Don't go up the stairs

I'm achin
I'm shakin
I'm breakin
Like Humans Do

I'm breathin in
I'm breathin out
So slip Inside this funky house
Wiggle while you work
Anybody can
The rain is pourin' in on a woman & a man

I'm achin
I'm shakin
I'm breakin
Like Humans Do
I'm breathin in
I'm breathin out

zipthwung said...

Call it ontological narcissism - i am scissors and glue and sticks as well as stones and echos oin the wilderness of mirrors.

I'm learning some software and downloading YouTube to mashup - thats the easy part. Or the hard part - for me at least. HTe easy part is editing it until it starts making sense to a head like me or you, if you do. Plus its a job skill.

A philosophical zombie, p-zombie or p-zed is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, sentience, or sapience. When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain. However, it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus), but it does not actually have the experience of pain as a putative 'normal' person does.

zipthwung said...

everly Hills, century city
everything's so nice and pretty
all the people look the same
don't they know they're so damn lame
there she goes
three piece suit
spandex pants
cowboy boots
I don't know what i'm gonna do
I don't know what i'm gonna do
maybe i'll have to move from
Beverly Hills, century city
everything's so nice and pretty
All the people look the same
don't they know they're so damn lame
there she goes
three piece suit
spandex pants
fiorucci too
beverly hills, century city!

No Rush said...

Koons, Hirst & Johanson are saying the same thing:

Status seekers - I never cared
once I found out they never dared
to seize the world and shake it upside down
and every stinking bum should wear a crown

Sayin' I cry for love
till all the plates are broken
cry for love
until my eyes are soakin'
cry for love
'cause imitation's boring
cry for love

bad tv that insults me freely
still i know what I'm dyin' to see
in searching for a meaningful embrace
sometimes my self-respect took second place

an' I cried for love
i did what my heart told me
cried for love
can't stand it
when they scold me
yeah i cry for love
'cause imitation's boring
cry for love

Surfers ride for love and wipe out when it hits 'em
soldiers kill for love and nobody admits it
if you're cryin' for love well, that's ok don't sweat it
if you're cryin' for love then there's still a chance you'll get it
cry for love

zipthwung said...

I smell hoax or at least a vapid PR kerfluffle - though Frogs do like to preserve their language and cultchure against the inevitable tide of change - supposedly, - I support provincialism in the face of dogmatic corporate hegemony or whatever. Still, it can be a bit thick and hierarchical and all that. THe ancien regime. The landed gentry. The glorious machine gun jousts. The atomic parades. Let mechanized death sprout from every orofice!

"Not everyone here was as pleased by the installation. Several dozen people demonstrated outside the palace gates early Wednesday, a protest organized by the National Union of Writers of France, a little-known, right-wing group dedicated to artistic purity in France."


zipthwung said...

ok so the dude that's attacking koons as sullying the decor at versailles wrote some books on the shroud of turin. Poor reporting man - if you are going to quote a nutjob, please include the background check.

I mean i;m totally down witht he shroud and all - I myself have a jar of nails - one of which (which one?) is from Noah's Ark - pretty fucking awesome right? Maybe I'll make a puppy.

No Rush said...

maybee you should

personally i dont like animals and i think knowing giving birth to a downs syndrome baby is irresponsible and immoral. dress me up in a burka and stone me.

zipthwung said...

This is your brain on the Caine.

A mind is a terrible thing to taste.

No Rush said...

thanks jfk

sarah palin eats her young, now she wants to eat mine

webthing said...


webthing said...


webthing said...


webthing said...

three parts commodity sage

jpegCritic said...

I'm leaving you painter.
Sorry, but this relationship is going nowhere.
Plus I saw
someone hold your hand the other
night. You'll be hard pressed to find
all the things you left behind.

zipthwung said...

the horror, the horror.

No Rush said...

she put some new stuff up on painter paparazzi. maybe she'll throw us a bone?

Painter said...

Hi Painter Here.
Sorry for no post in so long and no explanation. I am preparing for a show (in November) and haven't been able to see very many shows lately. I hope to get back to the blog after my show is under way.
I have had many email requests at improving the dialog and staying on topic of the paintings/artist posted, which is my hope for the blog too. I hope this is why you come to the blog as well to discuss painting.
As I prepare for my show I think a lot of what I will get out of showing and what kind of feed back I will get. I started this blog soon after my first solo show. Once the conversation started here I hoped it would be a place the artist might feel their work was seen and thought of, I will try and do a better job at directing it that way when I can put more attention into it.
I appreciate everyone who visits here and discusses the paintings posted.
Take Care.

Oh Shows I have seen and liked lately

Daniel Heidkamp @ Buia Gallery 541 W. 23rd St.

Betsy Kaufman @ Leslie Tonkonow 535 West 22nd Street

Jeronimo Elespe @ John Connelly Presents 625 West 27th Street

And Cecily Brown soon at Gagosian
And Rita Ackerman soon at Andrea Rosen

Go See!

p.s. jpcritic sorry you had to see me with that other guy : ) no hard feelings.

webthing said...

eh eh eh... (thats a chuckle)

zipthwung said...

please ban me before I post again.

consider the lobster


jpegCritic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jpegCritic said...

i take that back. --nk.

I think I'll see the show:
The Needle The Paintbrush and the Knife.

Painter. I'll try to survive the pain.

No Rush said...

caribou barbie

isno't said...

Joseph Mallord William Turner ...
hard to brand
he painted Hurricane Ike
b4 it was even a seed in the nuts
of Africa.
i would own this.

isno't said...

Joseph Mallord William Turner ...
hard to brand
he painted Hurricane Ike
b4 it was even a seed in the nuts
of Africa.
i would own this.

webthing said...

majesty - it's a british thing

zipthwung said...

Turner is a little painter dude.
Anyone wanna go down to the circle K with me?

Like John "telephone" Boothe

Alas poor Yorik! I knew him well Horatio, as i applied lipstick to his guilded lilly lips and trundled his corpse hither and yon, the dear departed on golden pond, Jane fonda on the whitehouse lawn, killing an arab as the omen spawned. Diamond dogs and daves not here. Go the the kegerator and tap four more years!

Poor soliloquy for a muted queequeg!
I'm bored, bored of the flies!!!!

upon said...

Content and website are good http://www.uponnet.com

no-where-man said...

so are prices going to crash this season towards my bank range... how will this change Art?

no-where-man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
No Rush said...


Ask Damien Hirst about that! I guess art is a commodity and a good place to put your money in a crash?

I dont know, I dont have any money.

zipthwung said...

ill send Koons a thank U note once I figure out how his shit empowers me.

Did you want the chocolates> I think now more than ever is the time - would be nice to send a super special bonus to whoever signed off on all the NINJA loans and shit.

Empower this.

zipthwung said...

The sow's ear effect is a term used in economics to describe when a country is unable to raise its productivity or per capita gross domestic product relative to other countries of similar development despite adjustments in macroeconomic policy, such as the exchange rate or the interest rate. This is due to deficiencies in on the supply side of the economy. This could be for reasons such as a poorly skilled labour force.

The term sow’s ear comes from the phrase: You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

zipthwung said...

Money is your home on the range
Money puts the weapon in the stock exchange
Ya make money on your 9 to 5
uhh to earn your livin so you survive
It takes money to pay your rent and to eat
Without money your home be on the street
So you steal some money and got to jail uhh
and then you turn around and need sumtin for bail
When you need twenty cents to call your lawyer
to plead innocence and say they never saw ya
But before ya ya lawyer a-get you free
He asks how will you pay his fee?
But you have no money, you're in a jam
Your lawyer don't give a damn, watch the cell doors slam
It takes money money (money money)
Cash, money money (money moneyyy) to the bill
It takes money money (money money), that's right
Cash, money money, for real
Dollar bill y'all, dollar bill y'all
Dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar bill y'all
Dollar bill y'all, dollar bill y'all
Dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar bill y'all
Dollar bill y'all, dollar bill y'all
Dollar dollar dollar dollar dollar bill y'all
Dollar bill y'all, dollar bill y'all
Make the homies rob and steal, kid for real y'all
It takes money to buy that TV set
It takes money to place that casino bet
It takes money to buy that radio
and money for gas so your car will go
It takes money for you to buy a house
It takes money for a trap to catch a mouse
It takes money to take a vacation trip
a cruise around the world on a pleasure ship
It takes money to get interest from the bank
It takes money for a homey to buy your tape
It takes money to pay for your doctor bill
and your psychiatrist if you're actin ill
It takes money for a king to have a queen
It takes money for the king to buy her ring
It takes money for a castle when the king is crowned
cos money what make the world go round
It takes money money (money money)
Cash, money money (money moneyyy), that's right
It takes money money a-to the bill
A-to the B-I-double L, BILL for real
Well if ya got kids a-then you know
the more you spend the more they grow
They go from two to four in a row
but don't think that the growin is thru cos you'se a fool
They go from four to six and what they bear
they have you spendin all your money like a millionaire
They go from eight to nine and then to ten
Your baby got'cha spendin money again
Wit'cha money now gone your rent is due
and now your landlord is houndin you
But you go to lay down and rest your head
but the bill collector done took your bed
And when you got twentys and fives and tens
then sometimes you got friends
But when you only got pennys, nickels and dimes
then you only got friends some of the time
So you make a million dollars to pay a tax
to keep the IRS off your back
Uncle Sam got his and I got mine
and now I got friends all o' the time
It takes money money, uhh (money money)
Cash, money money (money moneyyy), that's right
It takes money money (money money)
Cash, money money, a-to the bill
A-to B-I-double L, BILL for real

jpegCritic said...

what's money.
we don't take that here.
we're in the u.s. of a.
you got any fi-nancial instruments boy?

No Rush said...

The hero is exposed when
His crimes are brought to the light of day
Wont be feeling sorry, sorry, sorry
On the judgement day

Wasnt it me who said
Therell be a price to pay

And I wont feel bad at all
When the hero takes a fall
When the hero takes a fall
(hero takes a fall) oh no

jpegCritic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
zipthwung said...

you were wrong
when you said
everything's gunna be alright
yeah you were wrong
when you said
everything's gunna be alright

you were right
when you said
all that glitters isn't gold
you were right when you said
all we are is dust in the wind
you were right when you said
we are all just bricks in the wall
and when you said manic depression's a frustrating mess

you were wrong
when you said
everything's gunna be alright
yeah you were wrong
when you said
everything's gunna be alright
you were wrong
when you said
everything's gunna be arlight

you were right when you said
you can't always get what you want
you were right when you said
it's a hard rain's gunna fall
you were right when you said
we're still running against the wind
life goes on long after
the thrill of living is gone
you were right when you said
this is the end

Do you have to think about it?
Do you have to think about it?
Do you have to think about it?
Do you have to think about it?

zipthwung said...

which is pretty good - I mean think about it. Do you like regae music? i dont partcularly - though Bob Marley is good - and I like the Clash - its sort of where do you dear the line? peter Tosh? The world? See what I;m saying? Was"every little thing's gonna be all right" wrong? I think so. I mean managers, or rulers, have to worry.

But look, if you are worrying you should be PAID to worry - and I am thinking since the market will drop - why worry?

I dont have money to lose on the market - so its not as if I'm making a big comittment by choosing irresponsible "slacker" values - in fact I will earn more by being a slacker than I ever would being in earnest.

The market does not want earnest. No. The market craves the fantasy. And as artists it behooves us to give them what they want. Give them what they deserve. Give them, give them, but never surrender.
wazzup bitches.

No Rush said...

its a big potlach. theyre showin us whose boss. and trying to get that corpse elected prezident.

I guess I should've kept my mouth shut
When I started to brag about my car
But I can't back down now
I pushed the other guys too far
She makes me come alive
And makes me wanna drive
When she says "Don't worry baby"
Don't worry baby
Don't worry baby
Everything will turn out alright

i think slackers are responsible. but kid rock is on the top of sarah palins totem pole

zipthwung said...

kid rock's website is pretty fucking cool. Cash it the fuck in bro. "Cha ching" is change I can believe in, right?

Thats what the motherfucking rebs I mean republicans are thinking. Lets play beer pong with the economic ducats down on mainstreet. We dont smoke marijuana - we smoke crack, and we don't take trips on LSD we take them on speed and the homeland security slush fund.

me, i take them on the pig dog horse chicken, I ride. Like fuckin babba yagga ad shit. come into my hut me pretties. Ill leave the gass on for you. Motel 666 or 778 or whatever. You can dream.

Yes, lets stay on topic here. Stay the course. Read my lips, yeah you, lipstick, no more voodoo economics.

Fuck that shit noise man bro dood.

Light a match. Its the biggest thrill of all.

zipthwung said...

teach by example

you now?

No Rush said...


i don't know. this is the best week ever for me. i have a secure job, little debt and no stocks. burn it up!

No Rush said...

“I was at the White House drinking a Beam and Coke, shooting the shit with Rumsfeld,” he told Penthouse, “when [President] Bush came by and gave me five like we were on Seven Mile and Van Dyke in Detroit.”

zipthwung said...

yeah. I lost a few cheeseburgers in paradise but you can spend that on a couple of bottles of booze and I got work as a assistant to the assistant to the assistant or hwatever.

jay macinerny thinks the yuppies won and he is one so he should know.

w bush

webthing said...

art and politics, wbenjamin saw it all. only a very small corner of the universe is political. or is it?? politic is such a word as to have lost it's meaning and authentic progenitors. what we need is philosophers, not these fuckpuppets. don't let the foul tarnish seep into every crevice of your soul, especially this one chex. leave the tabloids to themselves those blind but funny assholes. transcendence is appropriate and vital more than ever. tye-dye your machete and slice the qwert.

webthing said...

in sickness and in health...

zipthwung said...

Lipitor for the soul
My Jarvik heart is on FIRE!

zipthwung said...

the boss is behind obama - the boss is america, therefore america is for obama.

But sarah palin has some tricks up her blouse, mark my words.

No Rush said...

i wanted to read that new york issue, so you got me back there to do it. read jay and then i read pete hamill. not that i disagree with their chronologies but they both concluded: yuppies are better than junkies. yuppies are better than junkies. having experience with both, i can't agree with that. i find the mean streets to be more fascinating than the balcony at studio 54. one isnt really better than...

its just some people are born to lose, and others cant lose if they try.

zipthwung said...

A liability is a present obligation of the enterprise arising from past events, the settlement of which is expected to result in an outflow from the enterprise of resources embodying economic benefits

– F.49(b)

yes ma'am

im watchin sergio leone (once uppon a time in the west) and doin mah tutorals

inflation will make this debt thing go away, i mean one billion dollars for a diet coke is a lot of moolah (i remember ony as far back as 20cent cokes), but if we go paperless, well then its just more data - and color tv is only a few seconds more that BanW to transmit (latency is a problem if you are shooting at live targets) so there you go - all drop frame is is a different label - you dont actually lose a frame -or information.

Same with junkies.

No Rush said...

dont like westerns much. did like this movie. its about walkin the line.

zipthwung said...

You need us more than we need you,” Mr. Mozilo said, “and if you don’t take these loans, you’ll find you can lose much more.”

Then Mr. Mozilo offered everyone a breath mint.

No Rush said...

hey painter: did you see this?


zipthwung said...

yeah whut bout da lynch mob dress for da peple who duhnt unaastan whut yall tal kin bout cuz they ignant?

No Rush said...

who ou callin dum?

zipthwung said...

"I'm sure John McCain loves his country," says Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism czar under Bush. "But loving your country and lying to the American people are apparently not inconsistent in his view."

can u belive it?

can an entire article be a misprint?

No Rush said...

He IS Mister Burns!

zipthwung said...

clean coal

zipthwung said...

He co-wrote A World Transformed with George H.W. Bush. This book described what it was like to be in the White House during the end of the Cold War, as the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990s. Explaining in 1998 why they didn't go on to Baghdad in 1991: "Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

Scowcroft is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, otherwise known as the Mormons.

zipthwung said...

On November 24, Nicholas, driving his Lamborghini along Newport Coast Drive with his son in the car, crashed into a light pole with such force that he sheared it at the base. Nicholas left the scene, and his bodyguard—a former navy seal named Stephen “Otter” Otten, who had won a Bronze Star for his duty in Fallujah and Baghdad—told the police that he had been driving. He later expensed his ticket to Nicholas.

CAP said...

Words Associated with ROBERTA SMITH:

abstract american art artists black canvas catalog century collection color conceptual contemporary culture curator dealers design draw early exhibit fair floor form gallery guggenheim image installed landscape large mancini matisse minimalist modern modernist museum object organization paint painter photographs photography piece portrait renoir review sculptor sculpture sense show small space stella surface tiffany video wall white whitney woods work york

Most Frequently Mentioned Topics
• Jasper Johns
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No Rush said...


thats kinda cool. do jerry. (clusterfuck, ecstacy, painting, dialectical...)

zipthwung said...

Build it

The dow is up!

zipthwung said...

Here’s the economist Michael Hudson, writing in the May 2006 issue of Harper’s Magazine: “The reality is that, although home ownership may be a wise choice for many people, this particular real-estate bubble has been carefully engineered to lure home buyers into circumstances detrimental to their own best interests…. The bubble will burst, and when it does, the people who thought they would be living the easy life of a landlord will soon find that what they really signed up for was the hard servitude of debt serfdom.”

I'm going to cash out and move to the wilderness for a while, wherever that is.

zipthwung said...

who am i kidding.

No Rush said...

I went into the Maverick Bar
In Farmington, New Mexico.
And drank double shots of bourbon
backed with beer.
My long hair was tucked up under a cap
I'd left the earring in the car.

Two cowboys did horseplay
by the pool tables,
A waitress asked us
where are you from?
a country-and-western band began to play
"We don't smoke Marijuana in Muskokie"
And with the next song,
a couple began to dance.

They held each other like in High School dances
in the fifties;
I recalled when I worked in the woods
and the bars of Madras, Oregon.
That short-haired joy and roughness –
America – your stupidity.
I could almost love you again.

We left--onto the freeway shoulders--
under the tough old stars--
In the shadow of bluffs
I came back to myself,
To the real work, to
"What is to be done."

No Rush said...

It must be demonstrated ceaselessly that a continually “growing economy” is no longer healthy, but a Cancer. And that the criminal waste which is allowed in the name of competition must be halted totally with ferocious energy and decision. Economics must be seen as a small sub-branch of Ecology, and production/distribution/consumption handled by companies or unions with the same elegance and spareness one sees in nature.

CAP said...


CAP said...

Comment 400:

I guess this means a new page.

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