Peter is such a great painter at times, The painting the Neptunes is a must see. As for this work, he told me he really was mistaken for a woman numerous times, that is why he made it. I hope there is more at Leos than just the works on the site. He should not be so worried about his "Legacy" though, he has already been a HUGE influence on this generation and the more he worries, the less rigorous the work. A real Kook though. in a good way.
A sweet gentle man and an amazing show. He didn't just collage together pop images he created his own vernacular. He's influenced several generations of artists but in his own way is so original the students never surpassed the teacher.
i find it very interesting how soooo many people jumped all over elizabeth murray and this guy is a saint so far.. i know the last 2 comments are probably not the complete consensus here but i'm curious now for more reactions..
I like to hang out with people I respect. If anyone cares to look at the Murray thread I was pretty clear on the point that history has judged her more harshly than Frank Stella, her illness has been cruelly used against her, and we need to look at her contribution ( the influence on Ofili and others is obvious). Neither ( Stella/ Murray) happens to be an influence for me personally. Just not my deal. Vija Celmins is though.
Something must be wrong with me, this repulses me but so many people like it. If i saw this in a newspaper in the comics section I wouldn't give it much thought, that Mr. Wiggles is much funnier.
I can't look at Saul's paintings very long. Murray's work on the other hand I can really stay involved in. To say her current work looks nostalgic is not to say it is not well worth the trouble of looking. Saul's type of skillfully painted cartoons are way too obvious, over the top, and agressive in the worst way... toward the viewer.
Maybe the hint of sexism mentioned here is not coming from the posters, but from this painting itself. It has more than a little of that.
Ok Poppy brought up a fair point so I'm dropping out of this thread even though Saul/ Jim Nutt have been a big deal for me for a long time. Hi Poppy :) But I will say I got to meet an artist I really admire this weekend ( who happens to be older and female) and we disagreed on this painting. She basically said what Cross is saying (re: sexism). A gay male friend thought it was mocking identity and body image issues. Maybe the mocking comic approach is put to better use in the show's Abu Ghraib painting.
Elizabeth Murray and Peter Saul are such a world away from one another I am suprised they have even been compared. Murray the bridge between 70's conceptualism and 80s painting, there is no one else that did it like that, Saul from the 60's. Besides Peter has been showing at David Nolan aka Nolan Eckman Gallery for years, Leo just has a higher profile. As for sexism. That is just silly. no one is claiming that Murray is not a great painter because shes a woman, or that Peter is better because hes a man. While there are similarities here, I think at times form is mistaken for content in a way it is not intended. That said, as a "painting" this would not be the most successful one I have seen.
I can see similarities in palate, and wierd tougue in cheek shapey cartoon hyper illustrated bits and parts tense air, with the dildo dr & orificey wierd envioronment. and her wonky things grabing at things.
However over all the P.S show had a great deal in common with the politically savvy graff. being thrown up all over the open Air Gallery S. w-burg is today.. thinkin of the corn in a car piece on the side of Front Room Gallery off hand.
I dont know how many people were influenced or whatever by whatever but I read a fair amount of comic books in my youth (many of them Conan, Krull, ) and you know, if you make work theres an audience and if theres an audience theres a market and if theres a market theres a venue.
Do rich people like comix?
Seems like cartoon network is going to be more avant guard - and in some way IS more avant guard than a lot of retrograde art - neo..eo..o..*
The high low thing is pretty stupid, high being rich nowadays I guess. But rich isnt better anymore, because reality TV exploded that myth.
But desire is felt as a lack - the best metaphors for desire being holes? (See Lakoff and Johnson for example).
This may seem patriarchal, but its more a matter of perspective, being you got it or you dont, use it or lose it, shake it till you make it.
But thats the market. Desire isnt just the market, its the root of all markets.
Which brings me to upsiode down trees, burning bushes, tumbleweeds and other empty signifiers.
Because if you arent a symbolist then what are you?
His very early work did pack a needed punch, and his earliest stuff (from like 50s?, I saw his slideshow) even prefigured Basquiat in a cool way.. But in this kind of stuff he just seems to complacent and settled into his technique. Seems like very little risk or occasion for chance is involved;kinda seems like he knows exactly what the painting will look like at the end from the point of inception.
Feelin' uninspired Think I'll start a fire Everybody run Bobby's got a gun Think you're kinda neat Then she tells me I'm a creep Friends don't mean a thing Guess I'll leave it up to me
I like Robert Williams, this is kind of interesting. These guys are better. Robert Crumb, Tony Millionare, Todd Schorr, Mark Ryden,Camliie Rose Garcia.
my little beadies lap Sauls spleen up, delish...the pull of that speeeel bunting the flood-light of description... all tipped up, spreading. Would a cunt between a 'his' legs be so bad!! this sorta painting is all woman!
K mentions Mad mag--never knew it directly but--but no--no one is going to convince me that that was funny. They smooched weed, anything was funny! This does, though, have the same timbre as the glossy, the generation I caught glimpse of, the whole 'wa-wa', which now reads toxic dust--at least the MAD definition of it!
Peter Saul @
ReplyDeleteDavid Nolan Gallery
560 Broadway
NYC 10012
and
Leo Koenig Gallery
545 West 23rd Street
NYC
Peter is such a great painter at times, The painting the Neptunes is a must see. As for this work, he told me he really was mistaken for a woman numerous times, that is why he made it. I hope there is more at Leos than just the works on the site. He should not be so worried about his "Legacy" though, he has already been a HUGE influence on this generation and the more he worries, the less rigorous the work.
ReplyDeleteA real Kook though. in a good way.
A sweet gentle man and an amazing show. He didn't just collage together pop images he created his own vernacular. He's influenced several generations of artists but in his own way is so original the students never surpassed the teacher.
ReplyDeletei find it very interesting how soooo
ReplyDeletemany people jumped all over elizabeth murray and this guy is a saint so far..
i know the last 2 comments are probably not the complete consensus here but i'm curious now for more reactions..
go poppy!
ReplyDeleteFeel a little embarassed looking at it..because its silly,and not in a funny way.
ReplyDeleteI like to hang out with people I respect. If anyone cares to look at the Murray thread I was pretty clear on the point that history has judged her more harshly than Frank Stella, her illness has been cruelly used against her, and we need to look at her contribution ( the influence on Ofili and others is obvious). Neither ( Stella/ Murray) happens to be an influence for me personally. Just not my deal. Vija Celmins is though.
ReplyDeleteYeah.I meant to say his stuff was really good in the past-
ReplyDeleteSomething must be wrong with me, this repulses me but so many people like it. If i saw this in a newspaper in the comics section I wouldn't give it much thought, that Mr. Wiggles is much funnier.
ReplyDeleteit had a much more offensive punch in the pop era-
ReplyDeleteI can't look at Saul's paintings very long. Murray's work on the other hand I can really stay involved in. To say her current work looks nostalgic is not to say it is not well worth the trouble of looking. Saul's type of skillfully painted cartoons are way too obvious, over the top, and agressive in the worst way... toward the viewer.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the hint of sexism mentioned here is not coming from the posters, but from this painting itself. It has more than a little of that.
Ok Poppy brought up a fair point so I'm dropping out of this thread even though Saul/ Jim Nutt have been a big deal for me for a long time. Hi Poppy :)
ReplyDeleteBut I will say I got to meet an artist I really admire this weekend ( who happens to be older and female) and we disagreed on this painting. She basically said what Cross is saying (re: sexism). A gay male friend thought it was mocking identity and body image issues. Maybe the mocking comic approach is put to better use in the show's Abu Ghraib painting.
Elizabeth Murray and Peter Saul are such a world away from one another I am suprised they have even been compared. Murray the bridge between 70's conceptualism and 80s painting, there is no one else that did it like that, Saul from the 60's. Besides Peter has been showing at David Nolan aka Nolan Eckman Gallery for years, Leo just has a higher profile. As for sexism. That is just silly. no one is claiming that Murray is not a great painter because shes a woman, or that Peter is better because hes a man. While there are similarities here, I think at times form is mistaken for content in a way it is not intended. That said, as a "painting" this would not be the most successful one I have seen.
ReplyDeleteI can see similarities in palate, and wierd tougue in cheek shapey cartoon hyper illustrated bits and parts tense air, with the dildo dr & orificey wierd envioronment. and her wonky things grabing at things.
ReplyDeleteHowever over all the P.S show had a great deal in common with the politically savvy graff. being thrown up all over the open Air Gallery S. w-burg is today.. thinkin of the corn in a car piece on the side of Front Room Gallery off hand.
right on Kalm James!
ReplyDeleteyes KJ is so courageous, by his own design...Now no more discussion of sexism--or be branded as the thought police! Coke or Pepsi indeed.
ReplyDeletedreams
ReplyDeleteAnyone see any good movies lately? Im looking forward to the Grudge.
I dont know how many people were influenced or whatever by whatever but I read a fair amount of comic books in my youth (many of them Conan, Krull, ) and you know, if you make work theres an audience and if theres an audience theres a market and if theres a market theres a venue.
ReplyDeleteDo rich people like comix?
Seems like cartoon network is going to be more avant guard - and in some way IS more avant guard than a lot of retrograde art - neo..eo..o..*
The high low thing is pretty stupid, high being rich nowadays I guess. But rich isnt better anymore, because reality TV exploded that myth.
But desire is felt as a lack - the best metaphors for desire being holes?
(See Lakoff and Johnson for example).
This may seem patriarchal, but its more a matter of perspective, being you got it or you dont, use it or lose it, shake it till you make it.
But thats the market. Desire isnt just the market, its the root of all markets.
Which brings me to upsiode down trees, burning bushes, tumbleweeds and other empty signifiers.
Because if you arent a symbolist then what are you?
Thats right, a tease.
Shame on you Peter Saul, you are asking for it.
i would not mean to suggest that sexism does not exist or play a role in the marketing of Art... i think does a good job of understanding it
ReplyDeletealexi vayner
ReplyDeleteFailure is not an option!
Serve Us In Trance
His very early work did pack a needed punch, and his earliest stuff (from like 50s?, I saw his slideshow) even prefigured Basquiat in a cool way.. But in this kind of stuff he just seems to complacent and settled into his technique. Seems like very little risk or occasion for chance is involved;kinda seems like he knows exactly what the painting will look like at the end from the point of inception.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletei was told if if your high it looks for a min. likea guy about to get fisted talking about a brick wall.
ReplyDeleteThey make you laugh out loud at his grotesqueries while admiring his virtuosity. These paintings are a gift.
ReplyDeleteIs the doctor a woman wearing a plaid flannel shirt and eye shadow?
ReplyDeleteI'll go with a yes.
it's ok
ReplyDeletefor crazy dreams i prefer jim shaw
I reject you. I reject you. Aye. I reject you.
ReplyDeleteFeelin' uninspired
Think I'll start a fire
Everybody run
Bobby's got a gun
Think you're kinda neat
Then she tells me I'm a creep
Friends don't mean a thing
Guess I'll leave it up to me
I like Robert Williams, this is kind of interesting.
ReplyDeleteThese guys are better.
Robert Crumb, Tony Millionare, Todd Schorr, Mark Ryden,Camliie Rose Garcia.
my little beadies lap Sauls spleen up, delish...the pull of that speeeel bunting the flood-light of description... all tipped up, spreading. Would a cunt between a 'his' legs be so bad!! this sorta painting is all woman!
ReplyDeleteK mentions Mad mag--never knew it directly but--but no--no one is going to convince me that that was funny. They smooched weed, anything was funny!
ReplyDeleteThis does, though, have the same timbre as the glossy, the generation I caught glimpse of, the whole 'wa-wa', which now reads toxic dust--at least the MAD definition of it!
Its more zap comic than Mad magazine.
ReplyDeleteVery nice! I like it. law enforcement codes
ReplyDelete